(MEGA THREAD) Proof God doesn’t exist

[thebuffdon690]

i mean its impossible to verify but coming from my personal life experiences it was

Yeh but that’s what I mean you’re presupposing it before it happens so it doesn’t count

 

[thebuffdon690]

Christian brother you should relax, you are very tense, you should talk to a priest to calm down.

Rip @Eternal_

 

[philosopher]

Yeh but that’s what I mean you’re presupposing it before it happens so it doesn’t count

no i wasn’t presupposing i came to that conclusion some time after it happened

 

[thebuffdon690]

no i wasn’t presupposing i came to that conclusion some time after it happened

When I say presupposing I mean you already knew what divine intervention was before you had that experience. You would have had to not know what it was and then find out or be told for it to not count as presupposition

 

[philosopher]

When I say presupposing I mean you already knew what divine intervention was before you had that experience. You would have had to not know what it was and then find out or be told for it to not count as presupposition

bro i came months after it happened to that conclusion jfl tf you mean someone telling you that or not knowing what it was

yeah i have to tell my whole life story to an someone and him telling me yeah that was a divine intervention its the only way that counts??

divine interventions are mentioned in the holy books of every faith, i didn’t come to that conclusion because of the way it happened, i came to that because of the circumstances of the situation

 

[thebuffdon690]

bro i came months after it happened to that conclusion jfl tf you mean someone telling you that or not knowing what it was

yeah i have to tell my whole life story to an someone and him telling me yeah that was a divine intervention its the only way that counts??

divine interventions are mentioned in the holy books of every faith, i didn’t come to that conclusion because of the way it happened, i came to that because of the circumstances of the situation

I’ll respond in around 12 hours I’m busy for the rest of the day

 

[King Solomon]

How does Jesus doesn't exist when you literally see all the celebrities worshipping Satan and mocking Jesus. They are literally showing you that they worship Satan by showing you their symbolism. Their plan is to get you away from Jesus. Every president,famous and wealthy person is a satanist.

You're on the right track but it's more of the Edomite Jews promote false propaganda through the entities they own and control (government, Hollywood, school, mainstream and social media, etc etc). The brainwash us with pseudoscience and false history and make it appear as though YAH doesn't exist even though they themselves know his existence but their God is Lucifer and they laugh at the retards that believe in their pseudoscience/false history.

You have to believe in Yah or you believe in nothing that a random cosmic explosion about 14 billion years ago created everything. You can't derive something from nothing. An explosion destroys every single time and never creates anything and it doesn't matter if it's done trillions of times, nothing is going to come from an explosion no matter the location, size or time. You have to believe that we come from bacteria that morphed into sea creatures then lizards then turd flinging monkeys and eventually humans. Yet there's never been a proof of a change of kind ever. There's only been proof of adaptations. There is no current forms in between monkeys and man as there qoul be millions of these types of in between species if evolution was true. This shit is laughable at best. Since there's 0 evidence of this theory of Evolution or the big bang, one must have dumb blind faith.

You have to believe in a globetard earth and infinite space traveling at the speed of light, the milky way traveling at the 1.3 million mph, earth orbiting at 66,600 MPH (mark of the beast to mock the retards) earth rotating at 1,000 mph. Yet nobody has ever or will ever see, feel, record, measure any movement of this earth ever as it's stationary. The NorthStar aka Polaris is above the north pole in the same location and has been forever and will be until the end of the earth. This is only possible on a ball and moving earth if the star is rotating, spinning, and shooting through the universe at the same exact speeds and directions of the earth. Only an absolute retard would believe that. No heliocentric astronomer can explain this phenomena to match the globetard model. Therefore you must have blind faith. As for the globe aspect, there is no curve that has ever been measured, planes fly level and remain at the same height and never adjust for or dip the nose for any curve because it doesn't exist and use trigonometry for landings because trigonometry only works on a level earth and we can see way to far around 1,000 miles on clear days you can see things that should be impossible on a globe model along with line of sight radios that work over thousands of miles. So obviously the earth isn't a basketball.

As for the existence of God, that's easy. If there's a sequence of letters from a cereal that says John, take out the trash this morning on the table. If John reads that sequence is he going to assume it's just random and the cereal box just fell over even though it's put away and there's no other letters of the cereal on the table? Nope, it's most likely intelligent design and probably his wife that wears the pants in the family. What do you see in code for a computer program? Do qe assume these lines of code are just random and happen by pure chance or luck? No, there's always a creator. Your DNA is the most complex lines of code qith over 3 billion base pairs in our genome. This is an obvious complex creation. Any person with an IQ over 70 can tell you this unless that person that's being intellectually dishonest and not holding onto their brainwashing beliefs brought to you by the owners and creators of Pfizer.


So we know the universe isn't a random explosion, the earth isn't a basketball that's spinning, that we're designed by a creator. So the question is, qho or qhat created us and this thing called earth? Qell look at the very DNA that that is the code that makes up qho you're. That code contains a mark of the creator and the mark is YHWH aka the name of the creator.

Atheism comes from satanic Edomite brainwashing, the false religions are bastardized versions of the creator's words or complete fabrications from lucifer himself. Those who received the CV19 has received the mark of the beast aka it removes the mark of YAH from your DNA and replaces the code with the numbers 666 in accordance to the patents of the Edomite owned companies. You're no longer technically human and have no connection with YAH anymore. You're property (slaves) of the owners of these DNA manipulation technology patents that make you a GMO. This is roughly 80% of the earth. So if you say you have no connection or cannot perceive YAH it's because you're no longer one of his children. Just like the pre flood, YAH destroyed all flesh and preserved NOAH's family because NOAH was a pureblood Adamite. The rest of flesh had been corrupted by mixing with Fallen Angels.

So qhat if there's a creator? Y should I care about this or the shape of the earth or the so called universe? Because, if you believe that you and everything is just a random chance created by nothing and come from an infinite space that's expanding at the speed of light and on a rotating random marble and come from a turd flinging monkey and qhen you die you turn to nothing aka go back qith your creator, then that means there's no purpose for you and you're easily controlled and manipulated. Once you understand the truth of creationism and that it aligns with science that energy is neither created or destroyed so your physical death just transfers your consciousness into pure energy aka a soul and it's eternal. This enables you to understand that your thoughts, actions, and beliefs qill determine the destination of this energy (qith your creator or without). YAH gives you the right to free will and doesn't obligate you to be with him. So if you qant to believe in the fairy tales of the Edomites to dupe the low IQ masses to eternal damnation then that's your choice.

Summary:
1.) Pseudoscience that presents Atheism is created by Edomites that know there's a creator but their Massiah is the anti-Christ and they laugh at the morons who believe their lies as it damns the low IQ masses to hell for eternity.
2.) No logic or evidence for any of their theories
3.) All logic and evidence points to us and everything being a creation
4.) All logic and evidence points to a single creator
5.) The mark of the creator is in our blood
6.) The Edomites have been parasites and killers of Caucasians for thousands of years and attempted to steal their identity since 150 BC this is because the Caucasians are the Israelites aka Jacob's descendants and Esau aka the Edomites have the most hatred of these people over all other races. They consider all races to be no more than animals and it's ok to rape, murder, steal, oppress, these non Edomites in accordance to their Talmudic books.
7.) Energy isn't created or destroyed it's simply transferred and your physical death transferrs your conciousness into your energy body aka soul.
8.) The creator gives everyone free will to be with him or without him. If you chose to be without him on earth in this short existence in the physical realm then you will be without him in your energy body for all eternity. Believing their is no GOD and or creating false GOD's means you're without him.


End of discussion

 

[thebuffdon690]

You're on the right track but it's more of the Edomite Jews promote false propaganda through the entities they own and control (government, Hollywood, school, mainstream and social media, etc etc). The brainwash us with pseudoscience and false history and make it appear as though YAH doesn't exist even though they themselves know his existence but their God is Lucifer and they laugh at the retards that believe in their pseudoscience/false history.

You have to believe in Yah or you believe in nothing that a random cosmic explosion about 14 billion years ago created everything. You can't derive something from nothing. An explosion destroys every single time and never creates anything and it doesn't matter if it's done trillions of times, nothing is going to come from an explosion no matter the location, size or time. You have to believe that we come from bacteria that morphed into sea creatures then lizards then turd flinging monkeys and eventually humans. Yet there's never been a proof of a change of kind ever. There's only been proof of adaptations. There is no current forms in between monkeys and man as there qoul be millions of these types of in between species if evolution was true. This shit is laughable at best. Since there's 0 evidence of this theory of Evolution or the big bang, one must have dumb blind faith.

You have to believe in a globetard earth and infinite space traveling at the speed of light, the milky way traveling at the 1.3 million mph, earth orbiting at 66,600 MPH (mark of the beast to mock the retards) earth rotating at 1,000 mph. Yet nobody has ever or will ever see, feel, record, measure any movement of this earth ever as it's stationary. The NorthStar aka Polaris is above the north pole in the same location and has been forever and will be until the end of the earth. This is only possible on a ball and moving earth if the star is rotating, spinning, and shooting through the universe at the same exact speeds and directions of the earth. Only an absolute retard would believe that. No heliocentric astronomer can explain this phenomena to match the globetard model. Therefore you must have blind faith. As for the globe aspect, there is no curve that has ever been measured, planes fly level and remain at the same height and never adjust for or dip the nose for any curve because it doesn't exist and use trigonometry for landings because trigonometry only works on a level earth and we can see way to far around 1,000 miles on clear days you can see things that should be impossible on a globe model along with line of sight radios that work over thousands of miles. So obviously the earth isn't a basketball.

As for the existence of God, that's easy. If there's a sequence of letters from a cereal that says John, take out the trash this morning on the table. If John reads that sequence is he going to assume it's just random and the cereal box just fell over even though it's put away and there's no other letters of the cereal on the table? Nope, it's most likely intelligent design and probably his wife that wears the pants in the family. What do you see in code for a computer program? Do qe assume these lines of code are just random and happen by pure chance or luck? No, there's always a creator. Your DNA is the most complex lines of code qith over 3 billion base pairs in our genome. This is an obvious complex creation. Any person with an IQ over 70 can tell you this unless that person that's being intellectually dishonest and not holding onto their brainwashing beliefs brought to you by the owners and creators of Pfizer.


So we know the universe isn't a random explosion, the earth isn't a basketball that's spinning, that we're designed by a creator. So the question is, qho or qhat created us and this thing called earth? Qell look at the very DNA that that is the code that makes up qho you're. That code contains a mark of the creator and the mark is YHWH aka the name of the creator.

Atheism comes from satanic Edomite brainwashing, the false religions are bastardized versions of the creator's words or complete fabrications from lucifer himself. Those who received the CV19 has received the mark of the beast aka it removes the mark of YAH from your DNA and replaces the code with the numbers 666 in accordance to the patents of the Edomite owned companies. You're no longer technically human and have no connection with YAH anymore. You're property (slaves) of the owners of these DNA manipulation technology patents that make you a GMO. This is roughly 80% of the earth. So if you say you have no connection or cannot perceive YAH it's because you're no longer one of his children. Just like the pre flood, YAH destroyed all flesh and preserved NOAH's family because NOAH was a pureblood Adamite. The rest of flesh had been corrupted by mixing with Fallen Angels.

So qhat if there's a creator? Y should I care about this or the shape of the earth or the so called universe? Because, if you believe that you and everything is just a random chance created by nothing and come from an infinite space that's expanding at the speed of light and on a rotating random marble and come from a turd flinging monkey and qhen you die you turn to nothing aka go back qith your creator, then that means there's no purpose for you and you're easily controlled and manipulated. Once you understand the truth of creationism and that it aligns with science that energy is neither created or destroyed so your physical death just transfers your consciousness into pure energy aka a soul and it's eternal. This enables you to understand that your thoughts, actions, and beliefs qill determine the destination of this energy (qith your creator or without). YAH gives you the right to free will and doesn't obligate you to be with him. So if you qant to believe in the fairy tales of the Edomites to dupe the low IQ masses to eternal damnation then that's your choice.

Summary:
1.) Pseudoscience that presents Atheism is created by Edomites that know there's a creator but their Massiah is the anti-Christ and they laugh at the morons who believe their lies as it damns the low IQ masses to hell for eternity.
2.) No logic or evidence for any of their theories
3.) All logic and evidence points to us and everything being a creation
4.) All logic and evidence points to a single creator
5.) The mark of the creator is in our blood
6.) The Edomites have been parasites and killers of Caucasians for thousands of years and attempted to steal their identity since 150 BC this is because the Caucasians are the Israelites aka Jacob's descendants and Esau aka the Edomites have the most hatred of these people over all other races. They consider all races to be no more than animals and it's ok to rape, murder, steal, oppress, these non Edomites in accordance to their Talmudic books.
7.) Energy isn't created or destroyed it's simply transferred and your physical death transferrs your conciousness into your energy body aka soul.
8.) The creator gives everyone free will to be with him or without him. If you chose to be without him on earth in this short existence in the physical realm then you will be without him in your energy body for all eternity. Believing their is no GOD and or creating false GOD's means you're without him.


End of discussion

So many things wrong with this but it’s so long I cba to respond. But just typical religious thinking

 

[Darktriad16]

Introduction

This is the ultimate god doesn’t exist proof thread. I will be providing proof (mostly) here that it is not possible for a god to exist. This is also intended for users who don’t have a great understanding of the subject and want to learn more about it, as well as for the high iq atheist users who just want their biases confirmed JFL.

This was inspired by @mogstars recent low iq (JFL) thread on life is cucked if you’re an atheist. I’m tired of religious cucks on this forum waffling: Muh Atheist low iq, Muh Atheist have no morality or no sense of purpose JFL, still makes me laugh, and they give no proof for it either, just wafflers. People have been claiming this about atheism for as long as it’s been around, so these points are really nothing new and can be explained. I aim to try to stop these low iq threads. Or if they will continue at least have good arguments.

One thing to note is that I am writing this thread from an unbiased perspective (some may have a hard time believing this given my strong atheistic stances on this forum lol) but nevertheless I have obviously considered both sides of the argument before making this thread, and I came to the conclusion atheism > religion/deism. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was a preconceived confirmation bias decision as I am well aware of these biases and try my best for them not to hinder my reasoning. If there was more proof god existed I would simply be making this thread but for the other side.

Another thing to note is that it shouldn’t matter if god doesn’t exist. People often fall into depression after losing their faith (just like I did). The thing is that atheism can give meaning, purpose everything that religion can. It just can’t give life after death. The thing is though imagine if everyone had the perfect life they wanted from birth to death, there wouldn’t really be a need for an afterlife. In my opinion the concept of an afterlife only exists because of evil, which is an intrinsic part of humans. People have a hard time accepting that and feel the desire for justice or an afterlife which can be devoid of any evil. Every human struggles with this no matter how much they will try to Larp. Just accept it the way it is.

The way I define god is in the traditional sense of omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent and omnibenevolent. If you are unaware with those terms just Google them JFL I can’t be asked to explain it on here, but most should.

Brief discussion on religions

As some of you may know I used to be Muslim my whole life until I left It only last year. The aim of this thread isn’t to disprove religions but to disprove the concept of god as a whole. I happen to think Christianity is a decent religion and many users here are obviously well versed in it and believe it is real (obviously not including Old Testament atrocities, there aren’t really any good apologetics for those as well, as well as how confusing the trinity is). But aside from that it’s alright. My personal opinion on Christianity is that Jesus wasn’t resurrected, but there is a decent plausibility that he was resurrected, and is therefore god. I can’t be asked to go into that here though because it will just take up too much time.

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Islam is a false religion, but just in case it’s not here is a thread on Reddit (JFL) that does a really good job outlining hadiths and how they disprove Islam. Great apologetics from both sides with unbiased opinions. Most Muslims here will never have heard of these as they are usually hidden by our scholars (obviously). Hence why when you bring these up to Muslims they almost always have never heard them before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/q47mxhmgdU.

The funny thing is tbh I sometimes think about how it would be hilarious if everyone argues over the main 3 Abrahamic religions and the one true religion is just one which no one follows or has heard about JFL, from like 2000+ years ago. Cracks me up thinking about it. But yeh I do think all religions are false.

Anyway I have considered most of the arguments for god (some more well versed than others) but I have a pretty good understanding of the apologetics for them and the counter arguments against them. Ones I have studied:
Fine tuning

Ontological

Cosmological

Contingency

Moral

Personal experience

Resurrection

Miracles

There’s way more but I can’t be asked to list them all here or go through with them, as this is a proof god DOESNT exist thread. If you wanna learn them more there are plenty of videos and sources online explaining them. Just be aware that there’s obviously still work being done on all of them and u shouldn’t use this as a baseline for your religious beliefs, which brings me into my first argument against god.

Lack of evidence?

You probably know that most religious people claim that gods existence is obvious (I don’t think they know what obvious means JFL) but they will usually cite fine tuning argument or Muh look at the trees bullshit for their so called evidence.

Well I’m here to tell you it’s not obvious at all, just because stuff exists doesn’t mean the concept of god (which humans came up with btw) is a real entity manifesting externally from its conceptual standpoint. This is a fallacy but either way, this begs the question of why does god make it so painfully hard to provide any knowledge of his existence (outside of religion)? I’m not referring to divine hiddenness here because this already presupposes god to begin with, this is more along the lines of lack of CONCRETE evidence, one which doesn’t take years of studying and scientific work to arrive at a conclusion, more from a critical thinking standpoint I guess.

It shouldn’t seem intuitive to people that just by looking around this somehow means that god is real. We have had stuff which has always mind boggled our intuition and still does to this day (take quantum entanglement as an example). This logically follows that it should be possible for god not to exist and we still have the universe we see today. This part obviously isn’t conclusive proof it’s just the starting point for further exploration of the subject.

Another point religious people like to bring up is that god has to exist because the universe couldn’t have been brought about accidentally. However this isn’t really true, and seems similar to like an appeal to intuition in them saying god has to exist because there is no evidence against the world not being an accident. But this is only judged by their own intuition, and any smart person will know our intuition is subject to many biases that are accounted for when coming to conclusions based on independent verifiable evidence. It is certainly plausible that it could have been accidental, especially given the time frame that evolution occurred on and the development of the universe as a whole. If we are talking about the Big Bang however things become a little more obscure, and it is certainly arrogant for someone to claim that this couldn’t have been accidental when we have no idea if that’s truly the case or not. Natural mechanistic forces are not dictated by any sort of agency like humans are dictated by agency, this means that it is possible (maybe not plausible though) that it could have been accidental.

Problem of evil

This is the most intuitively plausible argument against gods existence in general, and also in my own personal estimation, the main likelihood that god doesn’t exist. Certainly most religious people have doubts with this but usually tend to gloss over it, that is the religious mindset.

The general consensus in philosophy (as of right now) is that it is not logically impossible for god to exist given evil, but evidentially implausible that he would exist given the amount of evil we see in the world (according to atheist philosophers at least). Obviously it still plausible god would have reasons to allow evil to occur, such as overcoming the pain and being a better person on the other side or affecting someone else in that same manner. However it seems intuitively implausible that certain evils god would allow if he is all good as defined. This is where there is inherently more room for intuition, as evil is more of an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone’s own perception than just an independent reviewed study (which we don’t really have much of anyway for this problem).

I won’t be tackling this problem from a scholarly perspective as it’s mostly just brain rot. The way I like to tackle this problem is sampling different case studies of evil across human history and assigning them a factor out of 10 based on their intuitive responses they trigger in humans. This is because there isn’t really any other good way of tackling this problem besides intuitive philosophical thinking. Obviously if you wanted to conclude whether god does exist for sure, you would have to sample case studies of every single human in history and also rank each of their individual experiences of evil out of a factor of 10. You would also have to have every single human ever complete this task, as to limit individual biases. A confidence test or an average of these would probably give you a likely estimate of whether god exists or not. Obviously this is impossible so we can try this on a much less scale. For example:
Not getting the cake you wanted for your birthday is intuitively evil, but on an extremely minimal scale of perhaps a 0.13/10. Obviously this is autistic as fuck and no one thinks like this but we are trying to logically deduce whether god exists so we have to think like this. Lmao imagine if god exists and he’s autistic, ultimate JFL

However impaling someone and then raping their dead body would have a much higher scale of around an 8.7/10 (intuitively). This would be different based on everyone’s different level of intuition but somewhere around there. This is why this experiment is SO SO hard. We have no way of knowing as humans who’s intuition is more plausible based on perceptions of evil. Certainly, a three year old child may think that the example I gave has an intuitive level of evil of about a 10, whereas Ramirez may think it is about a -1 (JFL RR). This is why I believe it is impossible for us to know for certainty why evil exists and what constitutes as evil based on mere perception, but we can always make a logical inference and be correct (hopefully). JFL just imagine In reality if evil was actually good and we were just progressing backwards morally instead of forward. This is definitely not impossible but highly implausible.

Now for most people, a 10 would probably be along the lines of the greatest evils of all time, say unit 731, holocaust, torture of Junko Furuta. These seem intuitively impossible to most humans as to be anything lower than a 10 on the scale, but let’s say a 9.5 just to be generous to the more desensitised scums on this forum JFL. It does seem intuitively impossible for an all loving god to allow something like torture of Junko Furuta to happen (btw if you’re gonna look this up be warned it’ll probably ruin your day), especially when it resulted in her death and there was no benefit to gain from it for her (or anyone for that matter). Most people who come across this would logically conclude that god is a scum who allowed an innocent girl to get brutally tortured for something like his own sadistic pleasure, which makes no sense. Another thing is this would also affect someone who is looking for answers to this problem. Imagine if they came across this story and got traumatised and then subsequently lost their faith in god. Seems like a pretty stupid and useless thing for god to do to allow that to happen. Obviously as time progresses and more evil occurs, this gives us a greater intuitive inference to make about whether god does exist or not, and for me it seems more implausible than plausible that he does exist based on this problem, albeit not impossible.

The common apologetic response to this argument is that god does allow it happen, because of human free will etc etc. let’s just assume that free will does exist for the sake of the argument (obviously not something we can ever know but still). The main thing for me is that this doesn’t take away from the intrinsic suffering of said person who is still experiencing the state of evil, just because someone else’s free will allows them to act on that decision. Suffering is still a mental state at the end of the day, and just because someone has free will this doesn’t really prove anything to do with the argument.

Argument from eternal consciousness

This is the argument from eternal consciousness against gods existence. This isn’t a scholarly work it’s just an argument that I made up myself JFL, but it does have a high intrinsic plausibility factor, according to me at least.

Argument is basically:

P1: Gods existence is either mechanically determined, or consciously determined
P2: if gods existence is mechanically determined, then god can’t exist (as defined)

P3: gods existence is mechanically determined

Conc: therefore god can’t exist
It’s important to note that this argument makes the case of gods existence being impossible due to a logical contradiction with his attributes, not an argument of simply trying to deduce whether god does exist or not based on understanding of reality (take fine tuning as an example), but that the concept of god itself is fundamentally impossible, be it deistic or theistic.
The argument is basically stemming from the contingency argument, which is usually the most plausible argument for gods existence according to majority of philosophers. If you want to research this before hand that would probably be a good idea. It comes to the conclusion that god must exist because there has to be a necessary foundation to reality, an eternal agent which has always existed and brought about the universe. Obviously there’s a lot more to it but it’s mostly brain rot. My personal opinion however is that it’s quite likely that this argument is true, at least a factor of 8 (which is very high).

The main thing I’m trying to tackle here is the nature of this necessary existence, because the contingency argument doesn’t tackle that. This is more of an argument for deism but who cares it still counts as god (not in the traditional sense but just in general) it can still be used for the theistic god as well, but I would use different arguments to disprove that. The main point is that this entities existence would only be governed by mechanism or by agency. My argument is that it cannot be governed by agency.

Obviously it’s crazy to think about how something has always existed and how that’s even possible, because it breaks our intuition, so this might be hard but bear with me: for something to be eternal, that must mean that it’s existence is governed by it’s own intrinsic nature, and nothing external to it. Now I don’t think that it’s possible for a conscious being to exist necessarily, as mechanism seems fundamental. For something to have existed eternally and be conscious seems like a major contradiction. Consciousness entails agency, basically meaning that the being in question is alive and able to make decisions. But how can this be the case with an eternal existence. Agency requires the precondition of a decision to necessitate its existence, but since this being has always existed, how is it possible for it to make the decision for itself to exist, as the choice for it to exist must be preceded by a decision to result in that choice and then subsequently it’s existence.

But if it’s eternal, it cannot make the decision to exist since it has always existed. This plausibly leads to the conclusion that it’s existence must be mechanical, as mechanism would entail it’s eternal state of existence, being governed by some mechanism which in and of itself means that this being has existed forever. Another thing is that if this being is conscious, it must have the ability to decide to cease existing, otherwise it’s not conscious or an agent. But obviously this is a contradiction if it’s eternal, it must have a mechanism which stops it from existing as it has to exist by necessity (it’s non existence is impossible in every possible state of affairs).

People may argue that gods existence is dictated mechanically, but it still has the conscious ability to do things. This seems more like special pleading though. If I just have given an argument as to why it can’t be conscious, then that means it’s not conscious JFL. And then ultimately the discussion becomes pointless because it’s impossible to know the true nature of this entity. This is an example of how our intuition can be broken with thought experiments like these, which is why a belief in god should never be rational in my opinion (at least for high iq thinkers I’m not talking about the average person here). People need god and will always need god, but we’re interested in whether this so called being actually exists in reality.
But my argument would be that this facilitates a lack of belief in a god, due to these reasons. But I’m interested to hear peoples opinions on this argument because I’ve never seen this discussed online before, so let me know your thoughts (from both sides). I’m open to anyone trying to disprove what I’ve said (obviously given good reason) as I’m intellectually honest and open to worldview changes.

u can't disprove that a god can't exist i think u should rephrase it better and say disproving abrahimic gods or gods of religions, because saying a god doesn't exist is as arrogant as theists saying god exists

 

[King Solomon]

So many things wrong with this but it’s so long I cba to respond. But just typical religious thinking

You convinced me, nothing now magically creates everything. LMAO

From first glance at your responses, you either don't really believe in the everything comes from something and all the Edomite pushed pseudoscience beliefs or you're just ignorant on the topics.

 

[King Solomon]

u can't disprove that a god can't exist i think u should rephrase it better and say disproving abrahimic gods or gods of religions, because saying a god doesn't exist is as arrogant as theists saying god exists

DNA disproves that a GOD doesn't exist. You can't have a creation without a creator. This is so obvious. Nothing can't create everything. Then the question is who created the creation?

 

[emeraldglass]

This whole section makes your entire thread pointless because it turns you into an agnostic instead of an atheist. Even the small plausibility you believe in renders you agnostic isntead of atheist.

Also, this guy claims to have no biases, but right after praising Christianity and saying he might believe in Jesus being resurected, goes on to say that everyone with a brain knows Islam is a fake religion.

 

[lilith]

You're on the right track but it's more of the Edomite Jews promote false propaganda through the entities they own and control (government, Hollywood, school, mainstream and social media, etc etc). The brainwash us with pseudoscience and false history and make it appear as though YAH doesn't exist even though they themselves know his existence but their God is Lucifer and they laugh at the retards that believe in their pseudoscience/false history.

You have to believe in Yah or you believe in nothing that a random cosmic explosion about 14 billion years ago created everything. You can't derive something from nothing. An explosion destroys every single time and never creates anything and it doesn't matter if it's done trillions of times, nothing is going to come from an explosion no matter the location, size or time. You have to believe that we come from bacteria that morphed into sea creatures then lizards then turd flinging monkeys and eventually humans. Yet there's never been a proof of a change of kind ever. There's only been proof of adaptations. There is no current forms in between monkeys and man as there qoul be millions of these types of in between species if evolution was true. This shit is laughable at best. Since there's 0 evidence of this theory of Evolution or the big bang, one must have dumb blind faith.

You have to believe in a globetard earth and infinite space traveling at the speed of light, the milky way traveling at the 1.3 million mph, earth orbiting at 66,600 MPH (mark of the beast to mock the retards) earth rotating at 1,000 mph. Yet nobody has ever or will ever see, feel, record, measure any movement of this earth ever as it's stationary. The NorthStar aka Polaris is above the north pole in the same location and has been forever and will be until the end of the earth. This is only possible on a ball and moving earth if the star is rotating, spinning, and shooting through the universe at the same exact speeds and directions of the earth. Only an absolute retard would believe that. No heliocentric astronomer can explain this phenomena to match the globetard model. Therefore you must have blind faith. As for the globe aspect, there is no curve that has ever been measured, planes fly level and remain at the same height and never adjust for or dip the nose for any curve because it doesn't exist and use trigonometry for landings because trigonometry only works on a level earth and we can see way to far around 1,000 miles on clear days you can see things that should be impossible on a globe model along with line of sight radios that work over thousands of miles. So obviously the earth isn't a basketball.

As for the existence of God, that's easy. If there's a sequence of letters from a cereal that says John, take out the trash this morning on the table. If John reads that sequence is he going to assume it's just random and the cereal box just fell over even though it's put away and there's no other letters of the cereal on the table? Nope, it's most likely intelligent design and probably his wife that wears the pants in the family. What do you see in code for a computer program? Do qe assume these lines of code are just random and happen by pure chance or luck? No, there's always a creator. Your DNA is the most complex lines of code qith over 3 billion base pairs in our genome. This is an obvious complex creation. Any person with an IQ over 70 can tell you this unless that person that's being intellectually dishonest and not holding onto their brainwashing beliefs brought to you by the owners and creators of Pfizer.


So we know the universe isn't a random explosion, the earth isn't a basketball that's spinning, that we're designed by a creator. So the question is, qho or qhat created us and this thing called earth? Qell look at the very DNA that that is the code that makes up qho you're. That code contains a mark of the creator and the mark is YHWH aka the name of the creator.

Atheism comes from satanic Edomite brainwashing, the false religions are bastardized versions of the creator's words or complete fabrications from lucifer himself. Those who received the CV19 has received the mark of the beast aka it removes the mark of YAH from your DNA and replaces the code with the numbers 666 in accordance to the patents of the Edomite owned companies. You're no longer technically human and have no connection with YAH anymore. You're property (slaves) of the owners of these DNA manipulation technology patents that make you a GMO. This is roughly 80% of the earth. So if you say you have no connection or cannot perceive YAH it's because you're no longer one of his children. Just like the pre flood, YAH destroyed all flesh and preserved NOAH's family because NOAH was a pureblood Adamite. The rest of flesh had been corrupted by mixing with Fallen Angels.

So qhat if there's a creator? Y should I care about this or the shape of the earth or the so called universe? Because, if you believe that you and everything is just a random chance created by nothing and come from an infinite space that's expanding at the speed of light and on a rotating random marble and come from a turd flinging monkey and qhen you die you turn to nothing aka go back qith your creator, then that means there's no purpose for you and you're easily controlled and manipulated. Once you understand the truth of creationism and that it aligns with science that energy is neither created or destroyed so your physical death just transfers your consciousness into pure energy aka a soul and it's eternal. This enables you to understand that your thoughts, actions, and beliefs qill determine the destination of this energy (qith your creator or without). YAH gives you the right to free will and doesn't obligate you to be with him. So if you qant to believe in the fairy tales of the Edomites to dupe the low IQ masses to eternal damnation then that's your choice.

Summary:
1.) Pseudoscience that presents Atheism is created by Edomites that know there's a creator but their Massiah is the anti-Christ and they laugh at the morons who believe their lies as it damns the low IQ masses to hell for eternity.
2.) No logic or evidence for any of their theories
3.) All logic and evidence points to us and everything being a creation
4.) All logic and evidence points to a single creator
5.) The mark of the creator is in our blood
6.) The Edomites have been parasites and killers of Caucasians for thousands of years and attempted to steal their identity since 150 BC this is because the Caucasians are the Israelites aka Jacob's descendants and Esau aka the Edomites have the most hatred of these people over all other races. They consider all races to be no more than animals and it's ok to rape, murder, steal, oppress, these non Edomites in accordance to their Talmudic books.
7.) Energy isn't created or destroyed it's simply transferred and your physical death transferrs your conciousness into your energy body aka soul.
8.) The creator gives everyone free will to be with him or without him. If you chose to be without him on earth in this short existence in the physical realm then you will be without him in your energy body for all eternity. Believing their is no GOD and or creating false GOD's means you're without him.


End of discussion

so many words. we are god. we need the concept of a creator to make sense of our creation. it is just a limitation of our inherent animalism. but we created ourselves.

 

[Eternal_]

so many words. we are god. we need the concept of a creator to make sense of our creation. it is just a limitation of our inherent animalism. but we created ourselves.

CRINGE

 

[lilith]

CRINGE

 

[lemonnz]

This was inspired by @

@mogstars

That nigger blocked me for disproving religion. Shows the extent of ignorance these religioncels cope with in order to keep believing in their fairy tales.

 

[Darktriad16]

DNA disproves that a GOD doesn't exist. You can't have a creation without a creator. This is so obvious. Nothing can't create everything. Then the question is who created the creation?

wtf are talking dna proves god i thought muslims are the worst but damn u might change my mind.

 

[thebuffdon690]

That nigger blocked me for disproving religion. Shows the extent of ignorance these religioncels cope with in order to keep believing in their fairy tales.

Idk why when it comes to religion everyone just loses all their brain cells even the extremely high iq (so called) people

 

[thebuffdon690]

wtf are talking dna proves god i thought muslims are the worst but damn u might change my mind.

Pretty sure he’s Jewish but yeh idk

 

[thebuffdon690]

lol

 

[thebuffdon690]

This whole section makes your entire thread pointless because it turns you into an agnostic instead of an atheist. Even the small plausibility you believe in renders you agnostic isntead of atheist.

View attachment 2898484


Also, this guy claims to have no biases, but right after praising Christianity and saying he might believe in Jesus being resurected, goes on to say that everyone with a brain knows Islam is a fake religion.

I said I’m not biased towards the concept of god. Obviously Islam is a fake religion so what’s ur point

 

[thebuffdon690]

DNA disproves that a GOD doesn't exist. You can't have a creation without a creator. This is so obvious. Nothing can't create everything. Then the question is who created the creation?

The Jews did obviously

 

[thebuffdon690]

You convinced me, nothing now magically creates everything. LMAO

From first glance at your responses, you either don't really believe in the everything comes from something and all the Edomite pushed pseudoscience beliefs or you're just ignorant on the topics.

Atheists don’t believe that nothing created everything, just that god didn’t. Not sure why you are getting your so called atheist views from pre school level philosophy

 

[thebuffdon690]

u can't disprove that a god can't exist i think u should rephrase it better and say disproving abrahimic gods or gods of religions, because saying a god doesn't exist is as arrogant as theists saying god exists

Yeh true, I guess I should’ve emphasised that, but I believe that he doesn’t exist so I have to try and phrase it that way

 

[thebuffdon690]

bro i came months after it happened to that conclusion jfl tf you mean someone telling you that or not knowing what it was

yeah i have to tell my whole life story to an someone and him telling me yeah that was a divine intervention its the only way that counts??

divine interventions are mentioned in the holy books of every faith, i didn’t come to that conclusion because of the way it happened, i came to that because of the circumstances of the situation

Straw man. I’m just saying that you can’t know the experience before hand.

Also divine intervention is bullshit. I believed I was getting divine intervention from the Islamic god. Now obviously the Islamic god doesn’t exist so that just disproves divine intervention lmao.

 

[King Solomon]

Atheists don’t believe that nothing created everything, just that god didn’t. Not sure why you are getting your so called atheist views from pre school level philosophy

The entire Edomite model is based on the big bang, Evolution, globetard earth, etc. If you don't believe in this or a creator then you have no belief at all and there's no other option.

 

[King Solomon]

The Jews did obviously

You mean the Edomites adopted Judaism in 150 AD. Next please

 

[King Solomon]

wtf are talking dna proves god i thought muslims are the worst but damn u might change my mind.

Are you stupid or just ignorant? Perhaps you're both.

Your DNA is the most complex code in existence. All codes are a creation that require a creator. There's no example of code in anything as all of it has a creator. Code doesn't just magically pop out of thin air and everything doesn't come from nothing.

Muslim is an archaic satanic death cult and a bastardized version of Judaism which is a bastardized version of Christianity.

 

[thebuffdon690]

The entire Edomite model is based on the big bang, Evolution, globetard earth, etc. If you don't believe in this or a creator then you have no belief at all and there's no other option.

False dichotomy. It’s not just out of nothing or god lmao , and if you do believe then you need to present evidence that it is the case. And I don’t believe the universe came from nothing, even though that is possible, just not likely.

 

[King Solomon]

False dichotomy. It’s not just out of nothing or god lmao , and if you do believe then you need to present evidence that it is the case. And I don’t believe the universe came from nothing, even though that is possible, just not likely.

The evidence of proof is on you. You're out here trying to disprove something and yet provide no alternative.

If your goal is to convince people there is no creator even though that defies all logic, reason and science, yet on the other hand just supply people with not alternative to GOD and say the mainstream atheism core beliefs are false too then you're not going to convince anybody to your line of thinking and are either trolling or lack the ability to defend your position.


Convince me of your alternative so I can receive the pure bliss of this atheist belief.

 

[King Solomon]

so many words. we are god. we need the concept of a creator to make sense of our creation. it is just a limitation of our inherent animalism. but we created ourselves.

So nothing created everything then.

Lucifer's first deception was ye can be a God. Same shit, nothing new under the sun as you're being deceived bro.

 

[thebuffdon690]

The evidence of proof is on you. You're out here trying to disprove something and yet provide no alternative.

If your goal is to convince people there is no creator even though that defies all logic, reason and science, yet on the other hand just supply people with not alternative to GOD and say the mainstream atheism core beliefs are false too then you're not going to convince anybody to your line of thinking and are either trolling or lack the ability to defend your position.


Convince me of your alternative so I can receive the pure bliss of this atheist belief.

My whole fucking thread was trying to convince you that god doesn’t exist, not my fault ur either too lazy to read it or simply just ignoring it in pursuit of your own dogma, imposing onto others. Tackle my points I presented the evidence in my original thread. Let’s see you try to do that because you didn’t in your original post you just gave ur own reasons which have been debunked a million times

 

[King Solomon]

My whole fucking thread was trying to convince you that god doesn’t exist, not my fault ur either too lazy to read it or simply just ignoring it in pursuit of your own dogma, imposing onto others. Tackle my points I presented the evidence in my original thread. Let’s see you try to do that because you didn’t in your original post you just gave ur own reasons which have been debunked a million times

So you have no alternative. I see nothing that disproved God and refuted it easily with logic, reason and science. No matter how much evidence is presented to you it's meaningless as your mind is closed. I can't help you if you do not empty your cup. Also, how can I convert to your belief if you do not present it? You have to give an alternative to the thing you're attempting to refute so passionately.

 

[thebuffdon690]

So you have no alternative. I see nothing that disproved God and refuted it easily with logic, reason and science. No matter how much evidence is presented to you it's meaningless as your mind is closed. I can't help you if you do not empty your cup. Also, how can I convert to your belief if you do not present it? You have to give an alternative to the thing you're attempting to refute so passionately.

I literally gave you evidence that’s what this whole thread Is about, you’re just choosing to ignore it lmao

 

[Darktriad16]

Are you stupid or just ignorant? Perhaps you're both.

Your DNA is the most complex code in existence. All codes are a creation that require a creator. There's no example of code in anything as all of it has a creator. Code doesn't just magically pop out of thin air and everything doesn't come from nothing.

Muslim is an archaic satanic death cult and a bastardized version of Judaism which is a bastardized version of Christianity.

ain't no fucking way, u fucking changed my mind Christians are way way dumber than i thought.
1-dna is not a code u ignorant lil fuck, it's not information by the common meaning, it's like the way atoms arange, is 2 oxygen bonding fucking information? no but it contains the attributes of dioxygen; colour,freezing point,boilling point ....... it's the same thing with dna u can't say it's information that's just a loaded term theists love to use
2- complex doesn't mean it's a creation u have 0 proof for that only things we notice, we see a car so we think it has someone who made it, so we think everything needs someone to make it which is a false conclusion .
3- ur just dumb and love lying to urself, u've said this"something coming from nothing" 100 of times and every time u get answered but u still say it, no one fucking believes something came from nothing
4- I'm an ex-Muslim and i can confidently say that islam is way way way more logic and has lessdumb things than Christianity, even tho islam is dumb asf but truth has to be said, it learned from the mistakes of Christianity and made itself better. nigga imagine believing the creator of the universe is a fucking god that created his son which is him but not technically him to kill him to forgive mankind for their sins, godamn what retarded story

 

[King Solomon]

Introduction

This is the ultimate god doesn’t exist proof thread. I will be providing proof (mostly) here that it is not possible for a god to exist. This is also intended for users who don’t have a great understanding of the subject and want to learn more about it, as well as for the high iq atheist users who just want their biases confirmed JFL.

This was inspired by @mogstars recent low iq (JFL) thread on life is cucked if you’re an atheist. I’m tired of religious cucks on this forum waffling: Muh Atheist low iq, Muh Atheist have no morality or no sense of purpose JFL, still makes me laugh, and they give no proof for it either, just wafflers. People have been claiming this about atheism for as long as it’s been around, so these points are really nothing new and can be explained. I aim to try to stop these low iq threads. Or if they will continue at least have good arguments.

One thing to note is that I am writing this thread from an unbiased perspective (some may have a hard time believing this given my strong atheistic stances on this forum lol) but nevertheless I have obviously considered both sides of the argument before making this thread, and I came to the conclusion atheism > religion/deism. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was a preconceived confirmation bias decision as I am well aware of these biases and try my best for them not to hinder my reasoning. If there was more proof god existed I would simply be making this thread but for the other side.

Another thing to note is that it shouldn’t matter if god doesn’t exist. People often fall into depression after losing their faith (just like I did). The thing is that atheism can give meaning, purpose everything that religion can. It just can’t give life after death. The thing is though imagine if everyone had the perfect life they wanted from birth to death, there wouldn’t really be a need for an afterlife. In my opinion the concept of an afterlife only exists because of evil, which is an intrinsic part of humans. People have a hard time accepting that and feel the desire for justice or an afterlife which can be devoid of any evil. Every human struggles with this no matter how much they will try to Larp. Just accept it the way it is.

The way I define god is in the traditional sense of omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent and omnibenevolent. If you are unaware with those terms just Google them JFL I can’t be asked to explain it on here, but most should.

Brief discussion on religions

As some of you may know I used to be Muslim my whole life until I left It only last year. The aim of this thread isn’t to disprove religions but to disprove the concept of god as a whole. I happen to think Christianity is a decent religion and many users here are obviously well versed in it and believe it is real (obviously not including Old Testament atrocities, there aren’t really any good apologetics for those as well, as well as how confusing the trinity is). But aside from that it’s alright. My personal opinion on Christianity is that Jesus wasn’t resurrected, but there is a decent plausibility that he was resurrected, and is therefore god. I can’t be asked to go into that here though because it will just take up too much time.

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Islam is a false religion, but just in case it’s not here is a thread on Reddit (JFL) that does a really good job outlining hadiths and how they disprove Islam. Great apologetics from both sides with unbiased opinions. Most Muslims here will never have heard of these as they are usually hidden by our scholars (obviously). Hence why when you bring these up to Muslims they almost always have never heard them before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/q47mxhmgdU.

The funny thing is tbh I sometimes think about how it would be hilarious if everyone argues over the main 3 Abrahamic religions and the one true religion is just one which no one follows or has heard about JFL, from like 2000+ years ago. Cracks me up thinking about it. But yeh I do think all religions are false.

Anyway I have considered most of the arguments for god (some more well versed than others) but I have a pretty good understanding of the apologetics for them and the counter arguments against them. Ones I have studied:
Fine tuning

Ontological

Cosmological

Contingency

Moral

Personal experience

Resurrection

Miracles

There’s way more but I can’t be asked to list them all here or go through with them, as this is a proof god DOESNT exist thread. If you wanna learn them more there are plenty of videos and sources online explaining them. Just be aware that there’s obviously still work being done on all of them and u shouldn’t use this as a baseline for your religious beliefs, which brings me into my first argument against god.

Lack of evidence?

You probably know that most religious people claim that gods existence is obvious (I don’t think they know what obvious means JFL) but they will usually cite fine tuning argument or Muh look at the trees bullshit for their so called evidence.

Well I’m here to tell you it’s not obvious at all, just because stuff exists doesn’t mean the concept of god (which humans came up with btw) is a real entity manifesting externally from its conceptual standpoint. This is a fallacy but either way, this begs the question of why does god make it so painfully hard to provide any knowledge of his existence (outside of religion)? I’m not referring to divine hiddenness here because this already presupposes god to begin with, this is more along the lines of lack of CONCRETE evidence, one which doesn’t take years of studying and scientific work to arrive at a conclusion, more from a critical thinking standpoint I guess.

It shouldn’t seem intuitive to people that just by looking around this somehow means that god is real. We have had stuff which has always mind boggled our intuition and still does to this day (take quantum entanglement as an example). This logically follows that it should be possible for god not to exist and we still have the universe we see today. This part obviously isn’t conclusive proof it’s just the starting point for further exploration of the subject.

Another point religious people like to bring up is that god has to exist because the universe couldn’t have been brought about accidentally. However this isn’t really true, and seems similar to like an appeal to intuition in them saying god has to exist because there is no evidence against the world not being an accident. But this is only judged by their own intuition, and any smart person will know our intuition is subject to many biases that are accounted for when coming to conclusions based on independent verifiable evidence. It is certainly plausible that it could have been accidental, especially given the time frame that evolution occurred on and the development of the universe as a whole. If we are talking about the Big Bang however things become a little more obscure, and it is certainly arrogant for someone to claim that this couldn’t have been accidental when we have no idea if that’s truly the case or not. Natural mechanistic forces are not dictated by any sort of agency like humans are dictated by agency, this means that it is possible (maybe not plausible though) that it could have been accidental.

Problem of evil

This is the most intuitively plausible argument against gods existence in general, and also in my own personal estimation, the main likelihood that god doesn’t exist. Certainly most religious people have doubts with this but usually tend to gloss over it, that is the religious mindset.

The general consensus in philosophy (as of right now) is that it is not logically impossible for god to exist given evil, but evidentially implausible that he would exist given the amount of evil we see in the world (according to atheist philosophers at least). Obviously it still plausible god would have reasons to allow evil to occur, such as overcoming the pain and being a better person on the other side or affecting someone else in that same manner. However it seems intuitively implausible that certain evils god would allow if he is all good as defined. This is where there is inherently more room for intuition, as evil is more of an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone’s own perception than just an independent reviewed study (which we don’t really have much of anyway for this problem).

I won’t be tackling this problem from a scholarly perspective as it’s mostly just brain rot. The way I like to tackle this problem is sampling different case studies of evil across human history and assigning them a factor out of 10 based on their intuitive responses they trigger in humans. This is because there isn’t really any other good way of tackling this problem besides intuitive philosophical thinking. Obviously if you wanted to conclude whether god does exist for sure, you would have to sample case studies of every single human in history and also rank each of their individual experiences of evil out of a factor of 10. You would also have to have every single human ever complete this task, as to limit individual biases. A confidence test or an average of these would probably give you a likely estimate of whether god exists or not. Obviously this is impossible so we can try this on a much less scale. For example:
Not getting the cake you wanted for your birthday is intuitively evil, but on an extremely minimal scale of perhaps a 0.13/10. Obviously this is autistic as fuck and no one thinks like this but we are trying to logically deduce whether god exists so we have to think like this. Lmao imagine if god exists and he’s autistic, ultimate JFL

However impaling someone and then raping their dead body would have a much higher scale of around an 8.7/10 (intuitively). This would be different based on everyone’s different level of intuition but somewhere around there. This is why this experiment is SO SO hard. We have no way of knowing as humans who’s intuition is more plausible based on perceptions of evil. Certainly, a three year old child may think that the example I gave has an intuitive level of evil of about a 10, whereas Ramirez may think it is about a -1 (JFL RR). This is why I believe it is impossible for us to know for certainty why evil exists and what constitutes as evil based on mere perception, but we can always make a logical inference and be correct (hopefully). JFL just imagine In reality if evil was actually good and we were just progressing backwards morally instead of forward. This is definitely not impossible but highly implausible.

Now for most people, a 10 would probably be along the lines of the greatest evils of all time, say unit 731, holocaust, torture of Junko Furuta. These seem intuitively impossible to most humans as to be anything lower than a 10 on the scale, but let’s say a 9.5 just to be generous to the more desensitised scums on this forum JFL. It does seem intuitively impossible for an all loving god to allow something like torture of Junko Furuta to happen (btw if you’re gonna look this up be warned it’ll probably ruin your day), especially when it resulted in her death and there was no benefit to gain from it for her (or anyone for that matter). Most people who come across this would logically conclude that god is a scum who allowed an innocent girl to get brutally tortured for something like his own sadistic pleasure, which makes no sense. Another thing is this would also affect someone who is looking for answers to this problem. Imagine if they came across this story and got traumatised and then subsequently lost their faith in god. Seems like a pretty stupid and useless thing for god to do to allow that to happen. Obviously as time progresses and more evil occurs, this gives us a greater intuitive inference to make about whether god does exist or not, and for me it seems more implausible than plausible that he does exist based on this problem, albeit not impossible.

The common apologetic response to this argument is that god does allow it happen, because of human free will etc etc. let’s just assume that free will does exist for the sake of the argument (obviously not something we can ever know but still). The main thing for me is that this doesn’t take away from the intrinsic suffering of said person who is still experiencing the state of evil, just because someone else’s free will allows them to act on that decision. Suffering is still a mental state at the end of the day, and just because someone has free will this doesn’t really prove anything to do with the argument.

Argument from eternal consciousness

This is the argument from eternal consciousness against gods existence. This isn’t a scholarly work it’s just an argument that I made up myself JFL, but it does have a high intrinsic plausibility factor, according to me at least.

Argument is basically:

P1: Gods existence is either mechanically determined, or consciously determined
P2: if gods existence is mechanically determined, then god can’t exist (as defined)

P3: gods existence is mechanically determined

Conc: therefore god can’t exist
It’s important to note that this argument makes the case of gods existence being impossible due to a logical contradiction with his attributes, not an argument of simply trying to deduce whether god does exist or not based on understanding of reality (take fine tuning as an example), but that the concept of god itself is fundamentally impossible, be it deistic or theistic.
The argument is basically stemming from the contingency argument, which is usually the most plausible argument for gods existence according to majority of philosophers. If you want to research this before hand that would probably be a good idea. It comes to the conclusion that god must exist because there has to be a necessary foundation to reality, an eternal agent which has always existed and brought about the universe. Obviously there’s a lot more to it but it’s mostly brain rot. My personal opinion however is that it’s quite likely that this argument is true, at least a factor of 8 (which is very high).

The main thing I’m trying to tackle here is the nature of this necessary existence, because the contingency argument doesn’t tackle that. This is more of an argument for deism but who cares it still counts as god (not in the traditional sense but just in general) it can still be used for the theistic god as well, but I would use different arguments to disprove that. The main point is that this entities existence would only be governed by mechanism or by agency. My argument is that it cannot be governed by agency.

Obviously it’s crazy to think about how something has always existed and how that’s even possible, because it breaks our intuition, so this might be hard but bear with me: for something to be eternal, that must mean that it’s existence is governed by it’s own intrinsic nature, and nothing external to it. Now I don’t think that it’s possible for a conscious being to exist necessarily, as mechanism seems fundamental. For something to have existed eternally and be conscious seems like a major contradiction. Consciousness entails agency, basically meaning that the being in question is alive and able to make decisions. But how can this be the case with an eternal existence. Agency requires the precondition of a decision to necessitate its existence, but since this being has always existed, how is it possible for it to make the decision for itself to exist, as the choice for it to exist must be preceded by a decision to result in that choice and then subsequently it’s existence.

But if it’s eternal, it cannot make the decision to exist since it has always existed. This plausibly leads to the conclusion that it’s existence must be mechanical, as mechanism would entail it’s eternal state of existence, being governed by some mechanism which in and of itself means that this being has existed forever. Another thing is that if this being is conscious, it must have the ability to decide to cease existing, otherwise it’s not conscious or an agent. But obviously this is a contradiction if it’s eternal, it must have a mechanism which stops it from existing as it has to exist by necessity (it’s non existence is impossible in every possible state of affairs).

People may argue that gods existence is dictated mechanically, but it still has the conscious ability to do things. This seems more like special pleading though. If I just have given an argument as to why it can’t be conscious, then that means it’s not conscious JFL. And then ultimately the discussion becomes pointless because it’s impossible to know the true nature of this entity. This is an example of how our intuition can be broken with thought experiments like these, which is why a belief in god should never be rational in my opinion (at least for high iq thinkers I’m not talking about the average person here). People need god and will always need god, but we’re interested in whether this so called being actually exists in reality.
But my argument would be that this facilitates a lack of belief in a god, due to these reasons. But I’m interested to hear peoples opinions on this argument because I’ve never seen this discussed online before, so let me know your thoughts (from both sides). I’m open to anyone trying to disprove what I’ve said (obviously given good reason) as I’m intellectually honest and open to worldview changes.

1.) Lack of evidence?

As I stated before, your belief has been thoroughly debunked via our own DNA as it's code and no code is magically created from nothing so there's a creator. Then I stated who the creator is because the Mark of YHWH is in your DNA. No scientist on earth nobody has proven or will ever prove code can come from anything but a creator and we have already proven the Mark of YAH is in our DNA as we're in his image.

To disprove this you'll need to demonstrate that code/DNA comes from nothing and doesn't require a creator. Not possible, next topic.


2.) Problem of evil

Yah provided us with free will. Complete void of evil and total peace comes during the Kingdom in the afterlife.

3.) Argument from eternal consciousness:


limiting your thinking to the physical realm and physical laws. Even by doing this you still have the law of conservation of energy as energy is neither created or destroyed just transferred. So the energy or soul that enters to the physical body has always existed and will always exist.

Souls have been proven through people using Astral projection, soul travel and the CIA declassified studies on techniques to use Astral travel for other applications. These techniques are now taught in courses so any joe six pack can do this. Then for people who do not practice this there are millions of people who have Out of body experiences during near death experiences (OBE's and NDE'). The documented accounts are similar in that they automatically know they're dead, eternal, and have instant understanding of things. They're pure energy and pure consciousness. There is no gap of nothingness as your consciousness is instantaneous. entered into your soul/astral body. I recommend to look at the CIA studies on the alternate dimensions and Astral travel, books on OBE's and videos of people's OBE's and experiencing heaven or hell as atheists as their testimonies are similar and converted them alone based on these experiences.

Once you're in this alternate dimension, our human body's cannot see, hear, taste, touch or feel our souls in this form. Some people do have the ability to see via gifts (see ghosts, etc). This basically describes God as pure energy, that you can't taste, touch, feel, hear or see (unless he bestows you with the gift to do these things as has been done in the past).

The acknowledgement of pure consciousness isn't some fear of death or cope, it's simply an ethical revelation. We're truly immortal. Qe experience death but as an experience from the outside. It's an illusion, and there's no life after death because there's no death.


YAH is not a physical being unless he decides to manifest into physical form. The alternate dimensions are timeless, shapeless, limitless, has always existed and will always exist as is YAH as are our souls that are pure energy taking another form and uploading our pure consciousness into them.


My first taste of the natural sciences opened me up to atheism but after trying to use atheism and science to disprove the existence of YAH the more I researched and learned over the decades I became a theist after finishing the meal. That meal qas just a snack as the physical sciences do not even scrape our understanding of the alternate dimensions, soul, etc.

There must be a universal consciousness reading the universe/reality as objects spring into being when measurements are made and measurements are made by conscious beings. there must be a universal consciousness that pervades reality determining which states we are in.

Contingent minds have either a personal explanation or natural explanation. Quantum mechanics imply that our reality is an emergent from consciousness. The natural reality/Universe can't be the explanation of contingent minds. The explanation of the existence of conscious minds is personal. The personal source is the explanation of consciousness is GOD or YAH. Therefore, God exists.

Yah is an immaterial conscious mind and operates outside of space-time and isn't going through time as an omniscient being. His omniscient is a feature of his timeless essence.

It's simply impossible to have a mind independent reality. If there is no reality then mind alone exists. If mind isn't the product of real matter, instead it's the creator of the illusion of a material reality (This is truth as proven by quantum mechanics since 1925), then a then a theistic view of this existence is the only rational conclusion one can make.

 

[thebuffdon690]

1.) Lack of evidence?

As I stated before, your belief has been thoroughly debunked via our own DNA as it's code and no code is magically created from nothing so there's a creator. Then I stated who the creator is because the Mark of YHWH is in your DNA. No scientist on earth nobody has proven or will ever prove code can come from anything but a creator and we have already proven the Mark of YAH is in our DNA as we're in his image.

To disprove this you'll need to demonstrate that code/DNA comes from nothing and doesn't require a creator. Not possible, next topic.


2.) Problem of evil

Yah provided us with free will. Complete void of evil and total peace comes during the Kingdom in the afterlife.

3.) Argument from eternal consciousness:


limiting your thinking to the physical realm and physical laws. Even by doing this you still have the law of conservation of energy as energy is neither created or destroyed just transferred. So the energy or soul that enters to the physical body has always existed and will always exist.

Souls have been proven through people using Astral projection, soul travel and the CIA declassified studies on techniques to use Astral travel for other applications. These techniques are now taught in courses so any joe six pack can do this. Then for people who do not practice this there are millions of people who have Out of body experiences during near death experiences (OBE's and NDE'). The documented accounts are similar in that they automatically know they're dead, eternal, and have instant understanding of things. They're pure energy and pure consciousness. There is no gap of nothingness as your consciousness is instantaneous. entered into your soul/astral body. I recommend to look at the CIA studies on the alternate dimensions and Astral travel, books on OBE's and videos of people's OBE's and experiencing heaven or hell as atheists as their testimonies are similar and converted them alone based on these experiences.

Once you're in this alternate dimension, our human body's cannot see, hear, taste, touch or feel our souls in this form. Some people do have the ability to see via gifts (see ghosts, etc). This basically describes God as pure energy, that you can't taste, touch, feel, hear or see (unless he bestows you with the gift to do these things as has been done in the past).

The acknowledgement of pure consciousness isn't some fear of death or cope, it's simply an ethical revelation. We're truly immortal. Qe experience death but as an experience from the outside. It's an illusion, and there's no life after death because there's no death.


YAH is not a physical being unless he decides to manifest into physical form. The alternate dimensions are timeless, shapeless, limitless, has always existed and will always exist as is YAH as are our souls that are pure energy taking another form and uploading our pure consciousness into them.


My first taste of the natural sciences opened me up to atheism but after trying to use atheism and science to disprove the existence of YAH the more I researched and learned over the decades I became a theist after finishing the meal. That meal qas just a snack as the physical sciences do not even scrape our understanding of the alternate dimensions, soul, etc.

There must be a universal consciousness reading the universe/reality as objects spring into being when measurements are made and measurements are made by conscious beings. there must be a universal consciousness that pervades reality determining which states we are in.

Contingent minds have either a personal explanation or natural explanation. Quantum mechanics imply that our reality is an emergent from consciousness. The natural reality/Universe can't be the explanation of contingent minds. The explanation of the existence of conscious minds is personal. The personal source is the explanation of consciousness is GOD or YAH. Therefore, God exists.

Yah is an immaterial conscious mind and operates outside of space-time and isn't going through time as an omniscient being. His omniscient is a feature of his timeless essence.

It's simply impossible to have a mind independent reality. If there is no reality then mind alone exists. If mind isn't the product of real matter, instead it's the creator of the illusion of a material reality (This is truth as proven by quantum mechanics since 1925), then a then a theistic view of this existence is the only rational conclusion one can make.

All this word salad just to convince people of your religious views lmao. Your evidence for lack of evidence and problem of evil sucks as OP demonstrated. And as predicted you couldn’t respond to my third argument properly so you try and divert it to proving god with quantum mechanics which no one will understand and that’s the whole point of ur mumbo jumbo argument lol. People have done this before and its very easy to see through it , you ain’t fooling no one .

 

[King Solomon]

ain't no fucking way, u fucking changed my mind Christians are way way dumber than i thought.
1-dna is not a code u ignorant lil fuck, it's not information by the common meaning, it's like the way atoms arange, is 2 oxygen bonding fucking information? no but it contains the attributes of dioxygen; colour,freezing point,boilling point ....... it's the same thing with dna u can't say it's information that's just a loaded term theists love to use
2- complex doesn't mean it's a creation u have 0 proof for that only things we notice, we see a car so we think it has someone who made it, so we think everything needs someone to make it which is a false conclusion .
3- ur just dumb and love lying to urself, u've said this"something coming from nothing" 100 of times and every time u get answered but u still say it, no one fucking believes something came from nothing
4- I'm an ex-Muslim and i can confidently say that islam is way way way more logic and has lessdumb things than Christianity, even tho islam is dumb asf but truth has to be said, it learned from the mistakes of Christianity and made itself better. nigga imagine believing the creator of the universe is a fucking god that created his son which is him but not technically him to kill him to forgive mankind for their sins, godamn what retarded story

1.) Feel free to demonstrate hoq this DNA qas created from nothing. Please tell me you're not this dumb. I'lll pray for you.
2.) No you idiot, I said mroe complex than regular code and all code is a creation. Somebody get this kid a book. Read a fucking book nigga.
3.) Nobody has provided an alternate answer they say we do not believe that and provide no answer. It's hilarious these monkeys are pretending to know shit but know nothing. Either you believe you're a turd flinging monkey created from nothing magically or a divine creation from pure consciousness aka GOD or YAH. I'd be happy to see these other theories other than our material reality being a creation from other than something or nothing. BUAHAHAHAHA
4.) OMG you're even dumber than I imagined. Islam's history is a joke. It's a plagiarized version of Judaism. The false prophet muhhamid had no miracles, no fulfilled phorphecies, sinned 70 times a day, proven to be deceived by a demon for his vision of this religion therefore it's satanic to it's core, kills those qho are not aligned qith them and kills those qho free themselves of this cult. The dude used his made up religion for his benefit This garbage came 500 years after Christianity and is no better than the dumbass people that became Mormons.

He didn't create Yashua as he's always existed ( I am the alpha the Omega) and let US make man in our image. He simply materialized in the human form and the sacrifice is so the divorcement of his sheep aka Israelites didn't have to be completed due to their previous sins.

Thank you for answering my question as I can clearly see you're both ignorant and stupid and angry. You do not understand the bible at all and were once a part of an archaic satanic cult and now believe in nothing apparently and lack the ability to explain or substantiate this believe like the OP.

The OP says oh I don't believe in that. Then you have no belief and are wasting time.

Game set match

 

[King Solomon]

All this word salad just to convince people of your religious views lmao. Your evidence for lack of evidence and problem of evil sucks as OP demonstrated. And as predicted you couldn’t respond to my third argument properly so you try and divert it to proving god with quantum mechanics which no one will understand and that’s the whole point of ur mumbo jumbo argument lol. People have done this before and its very easy to see through it , you ain’t fooling no one .

So I demolish your stance and your overall responses so far include:

1.) No alternative to an unmovable move/pure consciousness/GOD/YAH just oh I don't believe in that but refuses to provide another belief/theory/idea/etc
2.) Too many words to respond to or word salad.
3.) To difficult for people to understand.


You're doing a very poor job of convincing people of anything. Show me this alternative, if you can't then delete your joke of a thread that has been debunked constantly.

 

[thebuffdon690]

So I demolish your stance and your overall responses so far include:

1.) No alternative to an unmovable move/pure consciousness/GOD/YAH just oh I don't believe in that but refuses to provide another belief/theory/idea/etc
2.) Too many words to respond to or word salad.
3.) To difficult for people to understand.


You're doing a very poor job of convincing people of anything. Show me this alternative, if you can't then delete your joke of a thread that has been debunked constantly.

You didn’t demolish anything, but continue to delude urself if u want.

I already debunked ur free will argument in my original thread you clearly didn’t read it. As for the third argument I already fucking said you are not answering it because you don’t know how to lol, but just diverting the topic to try and prove god with these elaborate fucking arguments which no one cares about or can understand. You aren’t smart lol.

Stop wasting my time with this garbage nonsense

 

[thebuffdon690]

So I demolish your stance and your overall responses so far include:

1.) No alternative to an unmovable move/pure consciousness/GOD/YAH just oh I don't believe in that but refuses to provide another belief/theory/idea/etc
2.) Too many words to respond to or word salad.
3.) To difficult for people to understand.


You're doing a very poor job of convincing people of anything. Show me this alternative, if you can't then delete your joke of a thread that has been debunked constantly.

And no one has debunked my thread so far lol, but again keep living in ur so called Jewish fantasy realm

 

[thebuffdon690]

1.) Feel free to demonstrate hoq this DNA qas created from nothing. Please tell me you're not this dumb. I'lll pray for you.
2.) No you idiot, I said mroe complex than regular code and all code is a creation. Somebody get this kid a book. Read a fucking book nigga.
3.) Nobody has provided an alternate answer they say we do not believe that and provide no answer. It's hilarious these monkeys are pretending to know shit but know nothing. Either you believe you're a turd flinging monkey created from nothing magically or a divine creation from pure consciousness aka GOD or YAH. I'd be happy to see these other theories other than our material reality being a creation from other than something or nothing. BUAHAHAHAHA
4.) OMG you're even dumber than I imagined. Islam's history is a joke. It's a plagiarized version of Judaism. The false prophet muhhamid had no miracles, no fulfilled phorphecies, sinned 70 times a day, proven to be deceived by a demon for his vision of this religion therefore it's satanic to it's core, kills those qho are not aligned qith them and kills those qho free themselves of this cult. The dude used his made up religion for his benefit This garbage came 500 years after Christianity and is no better than the dumbass people that became Mormons.

He didn't create Yashua as he's always existed ( I am the alpha the Omega) and let US make man in our image. He simply materialized in the human form and the sacrifice is so the divorcement of his sheep aka Israelites didn't have to be completed due to their previous sins.

Thank you for answering my question as I can clearly see you're both ignorant and stupid and angry. You do not understand the bible at all and were once a part of an archaic satanic cult and now believe in nothing apparently and lack the ability to explain or substantiate this believe like the OP.

The OP says oh I don't believe in that. Then you have no belief and are wasting time.

Game set match

Stop presenting false dichotomies, there is more than one answer to ur stupid question. If I say I believe in a natural necessary foundation of reality which isn’t dictated by consciousness you will just Larp and present some shitty view which tries to prove god. It’s obvious to tell when a theist is not intellectually honest but has an agenda and you’re doing a horrible job of trying to convince us it’s the former. No one is believing in your made up Jewish fantasy book mate so just leave it

 

[ItsyBitsyJayhawk]

Introduction

This is the ultimate god doesn’t exist proof thread. I will be providing proof (mostly) here that it is not possible for a god to exist. This is also intended for users who don’t have a great understanding of the subject and want to learn more about it, as well as for the high iq atheist users who just want their biases confirmed JFL.

This was inspired by @mogstars recent low iq (JFL) thread on life is cucked if you’re an atheist. I’m tired of religious cucks on this forum waffling: Muh Atheist low iq, Muh Atheist have no morality or no sense of purpose JFL, still makes me laugh, and they give no proof for it either, just wafflers. People have been claiming this about atheism for as long as it’s been around, so these points are really nothing new and can be explained. I aim to try to stop these low iq threads. Or if they will continue at least have good arguments.

One thing to note is that I am writing this thread from an unbiased perspective (some may have a hard time believing this given my strong atheistic stances on this forum lol) but nevertheless I have obviously considered both sides of the argument before making this thread, and I came to the conclusion atheism > religion/deism. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was a preconceived confirmation bias decision as I am well aware of these biases and try my best for them not to hinder my reasoning. If there was more proof god existed I would simply be making this thread but for the other side.

Another thing to note is that it shouldn’t matter if god doesn’t exist. People often fall into depression after losing their faith (just like I did). The thing is that atheism can give meaning, purpose everything that religion can. It just can’t give life after death. The thing is though imagine if everyone had the perfect life they wanted from birth to death, there wouldn’t really be a need for an afterlife. In my opinion the concept of an afterlife only exists because of evil, which is an intrinsic part of humans. People have a hard time accepting that and feel the desire for justice or an afterlife which can be devoid of any evil. Every human struggles with this no matter how much they will try to Larp. Just accept it the way it is.

The way I define god is in the traditional sense of omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent and omnibenevolent. If you are unaware with those terms just Google them JFL I can’t be asked to explain it on here, but most should.

Brief discussion on religions

As some of you may know I used to be Muslim my whole life until I left It only last year. The aim of this thread isn’t to disprove religions but to disprove the concept of god as a whole. I happen to think Christianity is a decent religion and many users here are obviously well versed in it and believe it is real (obviously not including Old Testament atrocities, there aren’t really any good apologetics for those as well, as well as how confusing the trinity is). But aside from that it’s alright. My personal opinion on Christianity is that Jesus wasn’t resurrected, but there is a decent plausibility that he was resurrected, and is therefore god. I can’t be asked to go into that here though because it will just take up too much time.

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Islam is a false religion, but just in case it’s not here is a thread on Reddit (JFL) that does a really good job outlining hadiths and how they disprove Islam. Great apologetics from both sides with unbiased opinions. Most Muslims here will never have heard of these as they are usually hidden by our scholars (obviously). Hence why when you bring these up to Muslims they almost always have never heard them before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/q47mxhmgdU.

The funny thing is tbh I sometimes think about how it would be hilarious if everyone argues over the main 3 Abrahamic religions and the one true religion is just one which no one follows or has heard about JFL, from like 2000+ years ago. Cracks me up thinking about it. But yeh I do think all religions are false.

Anyway I have considered most of the arguments for god (some more well versed than others) but I have a pretty good understanding of the apologetics for them and the counter arguments against them. Ones I have studied:
Fine tuning

Ontological

Cosmological

Contingency

Moral

Personal experience

Resurrection

Miracles

There’s way more but I can’t be asked to list them all here or go through with them, as this is a proof god DOESNT exist thread. If you wanna learn them more there are plenty of videos and sources online explaining them. Just be aware that there’s obviously still work being done on all of them and u shouldn’t use this as a baseline for your religious beliefs, which brings me into my first argument against god.

Lack of evidence?

You probably know that most religious people claim that gods existence is obvious (I don’t think they know what obvious means JFL) but they will usually cite fine tuning argument or Muh look at the trees bullshit for their so called evidence.

Well I’m here to tell you it’s not obvious at all, just because stuff exists doesn’t mean the concept of god (which humans came up with btw) is a real entity manifesting externally from its conceptual standpoint. This is a fallacy but either way, this begs the question of why does god make it so painfully hard to provide any knowledge of his existence (outside of religion)? I’m not referring to divine hiddenness here because this already presupposes god to begin with, this is more along the lines of lack of CONCRETE evidence, one which doesn’t take years of studying and scientific work to arrive at a conclusion, more from a critical thinking standpoint I guess.

It shouldn’t seem intuitive to people that just by looking around this somehow means that god is real. We have had stuff which has always mind boggled our intuition and still does to this day (take quantum entanglement as an example). This logically follows that it should be possible for god not to exist and we still have the universe we see today. This part obviously isn’t conclusive proof it’s just the starting point for further exploration of the subject.

Another point religious people like to bring up is that god has to exist because the universe couldn’t have been brought about accidentally. However this isn’t really true, and seems similar to like an appeal to intuition in them saying god has to exist because there is no evidence against the world not being an accident. But this is only judged by their own intuition, and any smart person will know our intuition is subject to many biases that are accounted for when coming to conclusions based on independent verifiable evidence. It is certainly plausible that it could have been accidental, especially given the time frame that evolution occurred on and the development of the universe as a whole. If we are talking about the Big Bang however things become a little more obscure, and it is certainly arrogant for someone to claim that this couldn’t have been accidental when we have no idea if that’s truly the case or not. Natural mechanistic forces are not dictated by any sort of agency like humans are dictated by agency, this means that it is possible (maybe not plausible though) that it could have been accidental.

Problem of evil

This is the most intuitively plausible argument against gods existence in general, and also in my own personal estimation, the main likelihood that god doesn’t exist. Certainly most religious people have doubts with this but usually tend to gloss over it, that is the religious mindset.

The general consensus in philosophy (as of right now) is that it is not logically impossible for god to exist given evil, but evidentially implausible that he would exist given the amount of evil we see in the world (according to atheist philosophers at least). Obviously it still plausible god would have reasons to allow evil to occur, such as overcoming the pain and being a better person on the other side or affecting someone else in that same manner. However it seems intuitively implausible that certain evils god would allow if he is all good as defined. This is where there is inherently more room for intuition, as evil is more of an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone’s own perception than just an independent reviewed study (which we don’t really have much of anyway for this problem).

I won’t be tackling this problem from a scholarly perspective as it’s mostly just brain rot. The way I like to tackle this problem is sampling different case studies of evil across human history and assigning them a factor out of 10 based on their intuitive responses they trigger in humans. This is because there isn’t really any other good way of tackling this problem besides intuitive philosophical thinking. Obviously if you wanted to conclude whether god does exist for sure, you would have to sample case studies of every single human in history and also rank each of their individual experiences of evil out of a factor of 10. You would also have to have every single human ever complete this task, as to limit individual biases. A confidence test or an average of these would probably give you a likely estimate of whether god exists or not. Obviously this is impossible so we can try this on a much less scale. For example:
Not getting the cake you wanted for your birthday is intuitively evil, but on an extremely minimal scale of perhaps a 0.13/10. Obviously this is autistic as fuck and no one thinks like this but we are trying to logically deduce whether god exists so we have to think like this. Lmao imagine if god exists and he’s autistic, ultimate JFL

However impaling someone and then raping their dead body would have a much higher scale of around an 8.7/10 (intuitively). This would be different based on everyone’s different level of intuition but somewhere around there. This is why this experiment is SO SO hard. We have no way of knowing as humans who’s intuition is more plausible based on perceptions of evil. Certainly, a three year old child may think that the example I gave has an intuitive level of evil of about a 10, whereas Ramirez may think it is about a -1 (JFL RR). This is why I believe it is impossible for us to know for certainty why evil exists and what constitutes as evil based on mere perception, but we can always make a logical inference and be correct (hopefully). JFL just imagine In reality if evil was actually good and we were just progressing backwards morally instead of forward. This is definitely not impossible but highly implausible.

Now for most people, a 10 would probably be along the lines of the greatest evils of all time, say unit 731, holocaust, torture of Junko Furuta. These seem intuitively impossible to most humans as to be anything lower than a 10 on the scale, but let’s say a 9.5 just to be generous to the more desensitised scums on this forum JFL. It does seem intuitively impossible for an all loving god to allow something like torture of Junko Furuta to happen (btw if you’re gonna look this up be warned it’ll probably ruin your day), especially when it resulted in her death and there was no benefit to gain from it for her (or anyone for that matter). Most people who come across this would logically conclude that god is a scum who allowed an innocent girl to get brutally tortured for something like his own sadistic pleasure, which makes no sense. Another thing is this would also affect someone who is looking for answers to this problem. Imagine if they came across this story and got traumatised and then subsequently lost their faith in god. Seems like a pretty stupid and useless thing for god to do to allow that to happen. Obviously as time progresses and more evil occurs, this gives us a greater intuitive inference to make about whether god does exist or not, and for me it seems more implausible than plausible that he does exist based on this problem, albeit not impossible.

The common apologetic response to this argument is that god does allow it happen, because of human free will etc etc. let’s just assume that free will does exist for the sake of the argument (obviously not something we can ever know but still). The main thing for me is that this doesn’t take away from the intrinsic suffering of said person who is still experiencing the state of evil, just because someone else’s free will allows them to act on that decision. Suffering is still a mental state at the end of the day, and just because someone has free will this doesn’t really prove anything to do with the argument.

Argument from eternal consciousness

This is the argument from eternal consciousness against gods existence. This isn’t a scholarly work it’s just an argument that I made up myself JFL, but it does have a high intrinsic plausibility factor, according to me at least.

Argument is basically:

P1: Gods existence is either mechanically determined, or consciously determined
P2: if gods existence is mechanically determined, then god can’t exist (as defined)

P3: gods existence is mechanically determined

Conc: therefore god can’t exist
It’s important to note that this argument makes the case of gods existence being impossible due to a logical contradiction with his attributes, not an argument of simply trying to deduce whether god does exist or not based on understanding of reality (take fine tuning as an example), but that the concept of god itself is fundamentally impossible, be it deistic or theistic.
The argument is basically stemming from the contingency argument, which is usually the most plausible argument for gods existence according to majority of philosophers. If you want to research this before hand that would probably be a good idea. It comes to the conclusion that god must exist because there has to be a necessary foundation to reality, an eternal agent which has always existed and brought about the universe. Obviously there’s a lot more to it but it’s mostly brain rot. My personal opinion however is that it’s quite likely that this argument is true, at least a factor of 8 (which is very high).

The main thing I’m trying to tackle here is the nature of this necessary existence, because the contingency argument doesn’t tackle that. This is more of an argument for deism but who cares it still counts as god (not in the traditional sense but just in general) it can still be used for the theistic god as well, but I would use different arguments to disprove that. The main point is that this entities existence would only be governed by mechanism or by agency. My argument is that it cannot be governed by agency.

Obviously it’s crazy to think about how something has always existed and how that’s even possible, because it breaks our intuition, so this might be hard but bear with me: for something to be eternal, that must mean that it’s existence is governed by it’s own intrinsic nature, and nothing external to it. Now I don’t think that it’s possible for a conscious being to exist necessarily, as mechanism seems fundamental. For something to have existed eternally and be conscious seems like a major contradiction. Consciousness entails agency, basically meaning that the being in question is alive and able to make decisions. But how can this be the case with an eternal existence. Agency requires the precondition of a decision to necessitate its existence, but since this being has always existed, how is it possible for it to make the decision for itself to exist, as the choice for it to exist must be preceded by a decision to result in that choice and then subsequently it’s existence.

But if it’s eternal, it cannot make the decision to exist since it has always existed. This plausibly leads to the conclusion that it’s existence must be mechanical, as mechanism would entail it’s eternal state of existence, being governed by some mechanism which in and of itself means that this being has existed forever. Another thing is that if this being is conscious, it must have the ability to decide to cease existing, otherwise it’s not conscious or an agent. But obviously this is a contradiction if it’s eternal, it must have a mechanism which stops it from existing as it has to exist by necessity (it’s non existence is impossible in every possible state of affairs).

People may argue that gods existence is dictated mechanically, but it still has the conscious ability to do things. This seems more like special pleading though. If I just have given an argument as to why it can’t be conscious, then that means it’s not conscious JFL. And then ultimately the discussion becomes pointless because it’s impossible to know the true nature of this entity. This is an example of how our intuition can be broken with thought experiments like these, which is why a belief in god should never be rational in my opinion (at least for high iq thinkers I’m not talking about the average person here). People need god and will always need god, but we’re interested in whether this so called being actually exists in reality.
But my argument would be that this facilitates a lack of belief in a god, due to these reasons. But I’m interested to hear peoples opinions on this argument because I’ve never seen this discussed online before, so let me know your thoughts (from both sides). I’m open to anyone trying to disprove what I’ve said (obviously given good reason) as I’m intellectually honest and open to worldview changes.

No offense mate, I'm a hardcore atheist myself but these arguments really aren't really cutting it. I mean, they are valid arguments but the problem is that they aren't proof for God's non-existence (which is at odds with the assertion you made in the title of this post) but rather counters to popular theistic arguments made in the favor of God. They disprove the preconceived notions about God (a sentient and personal deity) found in mainstream religion (of the Abrahamic variety to be more precise) but not God as an entity or property itself independent of any affiliations to any subset of human philosophy. There is no argument that can outright declare with utmost certainty that there is no God or there can be none but there are several arguments that can discredit every claim that seeks to suggest that there is one. And frankly enough, it's not our job to dispel any such notions. We don't talk in absolutes about things that are beyond the constraints of human understanding. We are here to challenge those who do claim to know the truth of the unknown and it's important not become like them in the process of doing so. It may seem like a philosophical stalemate on the surface level but it's not.

 

[thebuffdon690]

No offense mate, I'm a hardcore atheist myself but these arguments really aren't really cutting it. I mean, they are valid arguments but the problem is that they aren't proof for God's non-existence (which is at odds with the assertion you made in the title of this post) but rather counters to popular theistic arguments made in the favor of God. They disprove the preconceived notions about God (a sentient and personal deity) found in mainstream religion (of the Abrahamic variety to be more precise) but not God as an entity or property itself independent of any affiliations to any subset of human philosophy. There is no argument that can outright declare with utmost certainty that there is no God or there can be none but there are several arguments that can discredit every claim that seeks to suggest that there is one. And frankly enough, it's not our job to dispel any such notions. We don't talk in absolutes about things that are beyond the constraints of human understanding. We are here to challenge those who do claim to know the truth of the unknown and it's important not become like them in the process of doing so. It may seem like a philosophical stalemate on the surface level but it's not.

I’ve answered this objection a 100 times. Maybe that statement in the intro was a bit mis leading. But nonetheless, as an atheist I am doing my best to present my views on why I believe god isn’t real with proof, I am not declaring 100% he doesn’t exist with absolute certainty no one can do that. And my arguments are fine if you have a problem with them I’m happy to hear. They do disprove the general concept of a god especially the last one. Again, not with certainty but with enough reason to believe that that is the case

 

[Darktriad16]

1.) Feel free to demonstrate hoq this DNA qas created from nothing. Please tell me you're not this dumb. I'lll pray for you.
2.) No you idiot, I said mroe complex than regular code and all code is a creation. Somebody get this kid a book. Read a fucking book nigga.
3.) Nobody has provided an alternate answer they say we do not believe that and provide no answer. It's hilarious these monkeys are pretending to know shit but know nothing. Either you believe you're a turd flinging monkey created from nothing magically or a divine creation from pure consciousness aka GOD or YAH. I'd be happy to see these other theories other than our material reality being a creation from other than something or nothing. BUAHAHAHAHA
4.) OMG you're even dumber than I imagined. Islam's history is a joke. It's a plagiarized version of Judaism. The false prophet muhhamid had no miracles, no fulfilled phorphecies, sinned 70 times a day, proven to be deceived by a demon for his vision of this religion therefore it's satanic to it's core, kills those qho are not aligned qith them and kills those qho free themselves of this cult. The dude used his made up religion for his benefit This garbage came 500 years after Christianity and is no better than the dumbass people that became Mormons.

He didn't create Yashua as he's always existed ( I am the alpha the Omega) and let US make man in our image. He simply materialized in the human form and the sacrifice is so the divorcement of his sheep aka Israelites didn't have to be completed due to their previous sins.

Thank you for answering my question as I can clearly see you're both ignorant and stupid and angry. You do not understand the bible at all and were once a part of an archaic satanic cult and now believe in nothing apparently and lack the ability to explain or substantiate this believe like the OP.

The OP says oh I don't believe in that. Then you have no belief and are wasting time.

Game set match

what a fucking embarrassing retard
1- strawman, never said it was created from nothing, ur saying god created i said proof u have none so stfu, idgaf abt dna or where did it come that's a whole other subject
2-damn ur dumb asf, in 1) i proved that dna is not code or info, so ur just dumb comparing something else to code, which demonstrates the level of mental gymnastics u would do to prove or god lol. and let's suppose that dna is a code and that is more complex than our code which idk wtf u mean by it but its ok, what do we conclude from this? fucking nothing u retard, "muh uh everything comple has a creator" how didu know?u don't u just needed to create a law to prove ur god, ur like lil kids playing in the play ground creating rules to win the game .
3-we don't need to answer, is it that hard to comprehend? we don't claim to know the universe and know who created it and that he has a fucking son. and there are answers which have more proof than ur god jfl but we don't need them because we don't claim nothing, I'd rather not know the answer than believe a fucking fairy taile. btw basic knowledge in logical fallacies would save u so much time and embarrassment, this argument from ignorance fallacy.
4-all u said is very dumb and is what i expected from a retard that learns abt islam from david wood and u said is just bullshit that can be said abt Christianity too and how it stole myths from older civilizations,and muslims can turn it into a strong point and say it's because Christianity is just corrupted islam and it's allah that told jesus thoose stories ans told them again to muhammad and the other things are just claims with no proof pull out sum proof that islam is false, i bet ur so fucking retarded that u can't even proove islam is a lie, u think it's a lie because u were born on an even dumber lie.


i ain't here to listen to ur fairy tailes do u have proof that ur GOD that u worship exist or nah? because u ain't a deist so prove ur god and stop with the bs

 

[ItsyBitsyJayhawk]

u can't disprove that a god can't exist i think u should rephrase it better and say disproving abrahimic gods or gods of religions, because saying a god doesn't exist is as arrogant as theists saying god exists

Yeah, I made a similar reply to OP. Saying "I don't know" is not and has never been an act of weakness or a display of ineptitude. It's called intellectual honesty. Someone who admits they cannot be certain about something they have incomplete or limited knowledge of is better than someone who claims to be certain about something they have incomplete or limited knowledge of. As atheists, we are not obligated to prove the non-existence of God. Our job is to only to dispel the notions that claim to hold the knowledge of the unknown (i.e. the existence or nature of God). It's important to not talk in absolutes about the unknowable in the process of refuting the claims of those who do claim to know the unknowable. We're no different from the theists if we do that.

 

[thebuffdon690]

what a fucking embarrassing retard
1- strawman, never said it was created from nothing, ur saying god created i said proof u have none so stfu, idgaf abt dna or where did it come that's a whole other subject
2-damn ur dumb asf, in 1) i proved that dna is not code or info, so ur just dumb comparing something else to code, which demonstrates the level of mental gymnastics u would do to prove or god lol. and let's suppose that dna is a code and that is more complex than our code which idk wtf u mean by it but its ok, what do we conclude from this? fucking nothing u retard, "muh uh everything comple has a creator" how didu know?u don't u just needed to create a law to prove ur god, ur like lil kids playing in the play ground creating rules to win the game .
3-we don't need to answer, is it that hard to comprehend? we don't claim to know the universe and know who created it and that he has a fucking son. and there are answers which have more proof than ur god jfl but we don't need them because we don't claim nothing, I'd rather not know the answer than believe a fucking fairy taile. btw basic knowledge in logical fallacies would save u so much time and embarrassment, this argument from ignorance fallacy.
4-all u said is very dumb and is what i expected from a retard that learns abt islam from david wood and u said is just bullshit that can be said abt Christianity too and how it stole myths from older civilizations,and muslims can turn it into a strong point and say it's because Christianity is just corrupted islam and it's allah that told jesus thoose stories ans told them again to muhammad and the other things are just claims with no proof pull out sum proof that islam is false, i bet ur so fucking retarded that u can't even proove islam is a lie, u think it's a lie because u were born on an even dumber lie.


i ain't here to listen to ur fairy tailes do u have proof that ur GOD that u worship exist or nah? because u ain't a deist so prove ur god and stop with the bs

LMAOOO I laughed so hard at “and that he has a fucking son” you kill me man in a good way. This guy is literally just repeating the same bullshit they like to throw at us: Muh you guys believe nothing created something

@King Solomon STOP spewing the same garbage about nothing creating something who tf even brought that up. It’s not just about fucking nothing and god that’s a logical fallacy which I know you presented on purpose. Dumb ass user

 

[thebuffdon690]

Yeah, I made a similar reply to OP. Saying "I don't know" is not and has never been an act of weakness or a display of ineptitude. It's called intellectual honesty. Someone who admits they cannot be certain about something they have incomplete or limited knowledge of is better than someone who claims to be certain about something they have incomplete or limited knowledge of. As atheists, we are not obligated to prove the non-existence of God. Our job is to only to dispel the notions that claim to hold the knowledge of the unknown (i.e. the existence or nature of God). It's important to not talk in absolutes about the unknowable in the process of refuting the claims of those who do claim to know the unknowable. We're no different from the theists if we do that.

No offence but I disagree with ur point. I agree we can’t know for certain but that shouldn’t stop us from making claims about the unknowable based on logical inferences and reason, which is what my whole thread is about in the first place. And then it’s stupid when someone comes along and says OMG you are claiming god doesnt exist!!! Like no shit that’s exactly what im doing now try and disprove my arguments instead of waffling (not you but just generally). I never mentioned im 100% certain god doesn’t exist just that I simply don’t believe he does. For some reason that’s just impossible for people to understand here.

 

[ItsyBitsyJayhawk]

I’ve answered this objection a 100 times. Maybe that statement in the intro was a bit mis leading. But nonetheless, as an atheist I am doing my best to present my views on why I believe god isn’t real with proof, I am not declaring 100% he doesn’t exist with absolute certainty no one can do that. And my arguments are fine if you have a problem with them I’m happy to hear. They do disprove the general concept of a god especially the last one. Again, not with certainty but with enough reason to believe that that is the case

My bad, I didn't read this entire thread before replying to you. I don't actually have any qualms with the content of your post. In fact, having confided in you about the implications of your post's title, I don't have qualms with it anymore either. If I were to make a post like this, I'd make use of inflammatory titles to garner attention too. Classic bait and switch. Admiring the effort.

 

[ItsyBitsyJayhawk]

No offence but I disagree with ur point. I agree we can’t know for certain but that shouldn’t stop us from making claims about the unknowable based on logical inferences and reason, which is what my whole thread is about in the first place. And then it’s stupid when someone comes along and says OMG you are claiming god doesnt exist!!! Like no shit that’s exactly what im doing now try and disprove my arguments instead of waffling (not you but just generally). I never mentioned im 100% certain god doesn’t exist just that I simply don’t believe he does. For some reason that’s just impossible for people to understand here.

Yeah but that's not my point. I'm objecting to claims that boast certitude. What you are talking about are postulations. I have no problems with that whatsoever.