Do you believe in IQ differences between diff races?

[murdah]

I really think that there are differences in IQ between racial groups, theres a reason why asians are stereotyped as being good at math or curriculums in general. What do you guys think? @Jason Voorhees @Azonin @comingthrough @Eternal_ @Sny

 

[ElTruecel]

What do u mean believe? It’s a fact do u mean like if someone believes the difference is genetic to their race in a sense of race being real.

 

[st.hamudi but 6‘5]

very unsure

 

[murdah]

What do u mean believe? It’s a fact do u mean like if someone believes the difference is genetic to their race in a sense of race being real.

Believe in biological differences such as IQ, many normies think and say race is a societal construct and think everyone is made equally. I’m curious to see what users here think though

 

[hattrick]

it's an empirical reality

 

[Azonin]

View attachment 2884646I really think that there are differences in IQ between racial groups, theres a reason why asians are stereotyped as being good at math or curriculums in general. What do you guys think? @Jason Voorhees @Azonin @comingthrough @Eternal_ @Sny

Black people dont get the same opportunities as white people, maybe I would be convinced if these were results from a controlled cohort study

 

[mayo mogger]

View attachment 2884646I really think that there are differences in IQ between racial groups, theres a reason why asians are stereotyped as being good at math or curriculums in general. What do you guys think? @Jason Voorhees @Azonin @comingthrough @Eternal_ @Sny

no , if a race is more illiterate then its not a good measure of iq

 

[Sny]

View attachment 2884646I really think that there are differences in IQ between racial groups, theres a reason why asians are stereotyped as being good at math or curriculums in general. What do you guys think? @Jason Voorhees @Azonin @comingthrough @Eternal_ @Sny

Ye it definitely does exist but the problem is that people use it as a pure determinant for other factors(most especially intelligence). However it's beyond rare for a 110 IQ guy to become a noble decorated prize winner in Mathematical systems vs a 140 IQ guy.

Also it is pretty much pattern recognition and heighted computational propensity that is useless on inferring other factors of intelligence.

 

[st.hamudi but 6‘5]

very unsure

why do I think this? because the education in my home country is not as good as the one from germany - the avg is lower

despite that when my family migrated into germany the second generation iq mogged all germans around us giga hard

so I suspect that iq is very dependent on environment and other things too

 

[murdah]

Black people dont get the same opportunities as white people, maybe I would be convinced if these were results from a controlled cohort study

True, there are many factors that go into it.

 

[Sexually Disabled]

It's real but I'm not convinced it's due to genetic reasons.

 

[Azonin]

True, there are many factors that go into it.

Yeah but you're saying that as if research hasn't been already done, adoption studies where white families of totally different culture adopt a black kid from a very young age as opposed to a white kid in the same family and the difference is still similar to 1 standard deviation, which is also the same average iq for blacks in usa.

 

[Looks234]

Overrated. Asians don’t come out the womb as Einstein it’s mainly cultural

 

[Azonin]

It's real but I'm not convinced it's due to genetic reasons.

Genetically it's nuanced so you can't make blank statements like they have lower impulse control which is correlated somewhat with worse decision making and links back to the g factor though that probably isn't a very good look for them either lol.

 

[murdah]

Genetically it's nuanced so you can't make blank statements like they have lower impulse control which is correlated somewhat with worse decision making and links back to the g factor though that probably isn't a very good look for them either lol.

Based white supremacist

 

[Azonin]

Overrated. Asians don’t come out the womb as Einstein it’s mainly cultural

So you're claiming asian culture is what bumped up the iq by half a std? asian culture can be split up even further into japanese, chinese or even parts of these places.

It's ironic that you bring up einstein in regards to claiming their higher iq is due to culture, when einstein was more likely than not high iq due to genetics, all else equal.

 

[ElTruecel]

Overrated. Asians don’t come out the womb as Einstein it’s mainly cultural

A study showing adopted black and white kids raised in the same environment, by the same parents in the same schools blacks still had a lower iq compared to the white kids.

Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Read about this

 

[Azonin]

A study showing adopted black and white kids raised in the same environment, by the same parents in the same schools still had a lower iq compared to the white kids.

Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Read about this

yeah this is exactly what I was referring to, even if it were genetics I'm confident to say that a white dude being brought up in a black environment would have a lower iq than the average white family.

 

[Sny]

Asians(East Asian stock) for example are pretty smart. More so than other races. Doing things such as Calc 1-3, Electromagnitism, Molecular cell biology etc with relative ease, but at times I doubt that as whenever I converse with them it feels as it I'm engaging with an NPC. Now you might say "They are just socially introverted compared/high inhibition to most convos OP!".

While yoi may be right, I disagree. Simply on the basis that they are clueless in ways I can't imagine. I don't know if it's because of their study culture which limits them to a linear thinking pattern or another genetic factor. However culture and genetics tends to correlate somewhat with one another. It's not as simple as culture defining genetics or genetics defining culture. They are proportionally tied to one another(going on a tangent lol).

It's as if East asians are incapable of conceptualizing things differently to what they know. They are the perfect thinkers inside of the box but outside of it, they are clueless at best.

 

[Azonin]

A study showing adopted black and white kids raised in the same environment, by the same parents in the same schools blacks still had a lower iq compared to the white kids.

Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Read about this

Literal proof that black people live in a low iq environment:

"They noted, however, that the study indicated that cross-racial adoption had a positive effect on black-adopted children."

and also:

"For all measures, the children with two black parents scored lower than the children with one black and white parent, who in turn scored lower than the adopted children with two white parents. Both omitted discussion of Asian adoptees."

 

[Looks234]

So you're claiming asian culture is what bumped up the iq by half a std? asian culture can be split up even further into japanese, chinese or even parts of these places.

It's ironic that you bring up einstein in regards to claiming their higher iq is due to culture, when einstein was more likely than not high iq due to genetics, all else equal.

In 1900 America and Britain’s average iq was 70

 

[Sny]

yeah this is exactly what I was referring to, even if it were genetics I'm confident to say that a white dude being brought up in a black environment would have a lower iq than the average white family.

Culture does have an effect but it's not going to erase genetic differences immediately. Some speculate that studying or having any prolonged digestion of knowledge can raise your IQ slightly and temporarily whilst doing it. Unfortunately it will never close the gap between a 110 vs 140 IQ person.

 

[Azonin]

Literal proof that black people live in a low iq environment:

"They noted, however, that the study indicated that cross-racial adoption had a positive effect on black-adopted children."

and also:

"For all measures, the children with two black parents scored lower than the children with one black and white parent, who in turn scored lower than the adopted children with two white parents. Both omitted discussion of Asian adoptees."

It's an excellent study, Minnesota is one of the whitest areas you can get in america.

But it would be nice if there were also studies that control for social environment rather than family/home environment exclusively.

 

[Azonin]

Culture does have an effect but it's not going to erase genetic differences immediately. Some speculate that studying or having any prolonged digestion of knowledge can raise your IQ slightly and temporarily whilst doing it. Unfortunately it will never close the gap between a 110 vs 140 IQ person.

I mean all you said is that temporarily studying (ideally stem) as compared to not,all else equal, raises iq. Water.

 

[nathan]

A study showing adopted black and white kids raised in the same environment, by the same parents in the same schools blacks still had a lower iq compared to the white kids.

Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Read about this

 

[Azonin]

In 1900 America and Britain’s average iq was 70

The average iq of a starving person who is about to die is likely 50-60, no shit.

That's why I said "all else equal" if you paid attention to my reply. And even if it was 70 which I'm sure was low, that would only show that genetics are the bigger factor rather than environment.

 

[Looks234]

A study showing adopted black and white kids raised in the same environment, by the same parents in the same schools blacks still had a lower iq compared to the white kids.

Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Read about this

From the 1970s

 

[Azonin]

The average iq of a starving person who is about to die is likely 50-60, no shit.

That's why I said "all else equal" if you paid attention to my reply. And even if it was 70 which I'm sure was low, that would only show that genetics are the bigger factor rather than environment.

If you factor in the Flynn effect and everything else which would be a good reason to believe that the average German IQ at the time was way lower than the modern one, this would only be evidence to indicate Einstein's intelligence was more to do with genes if he experienced the same environment, not doing well in school by dropping out and having roughly the same financial stability.

 

[Azonin]

From the 1970s jfl

And do you not see that 12 point jump just from being adopted to a white family
View attachment 2884681

Yes that one may lack temporal validity but 12 iq difference is close to 1 standard deviation, which is typically the iq difference between the average white and black.

But that is why we have newer studies like 2016:

A paper from Drew Thomas (2016) found that once corrected for the Flynn effect and attrition in the low IQ white adoptees, the MTRA data showed mixed adoptees scoring slightly lower than white adoptees with a gap of 2.5 points at age 7 and 3.5 at age 17, while black adoptees scored 12.2 and 11.7 points below white

 

[ElTruecel]

Literal proof that black people live in a low iq environment:

From the 1970s

Misread

The Minnesota transracial Adoption studies states
Harvard psychologists took a look at how black children adopted by well off upper-middle class white families at a very young age perform on IQ tests once they grow up in white families with good socioeconomic conditions. Black children adopted by white parents average 89 on IQ tests at age 17 (slightly better than the 85 average for blacks nationally). White children who grew up in the same households and had white biological parents on average scored 109. Even with the same socioeconomic upbringing, the racial IQ gap remains.
20 point difference

 

[copemaxxeer]

Black people dont get the same opportunities as white people, maybe I would be convinced if these were results from a controlled cohort study

Even in that case there are probably more white geniuses on fucking Switzerland alive today than combining all the population of black people on the entire planet that has ever lived since the stone age lmao

Ultimately every asian and white culture had good and bad times but the fact that black people have failed to create a single good self sustaining competitive society is all that you need to confirm their genes are pure trash

 

[Azonin]

The Minnesota transracial Adoption studies states
Harvard psychologists took a look at how black children adopted by well off upper-middle class white families at a very young age perform on IQ tests once they grow up in white families with good socioeconomic conditions. Black children adopted by white parents average 89 on IQ tests at age 17 (slightly better than the 85 average for blacks nationally). White children who grew up in the same households and had white biological parents on average scored 109. Even with the same socioeconomic upbringing, the racial IQ gap remains.
20 point difference

It is an interesting study but you have to remember that to say it fully controls for the environment is inaccurate since we are only controlling for their environmental experiences at home and only partly on the social side due to having better money.

 

[Azonin]

Even in that case there are probably more white geniuses on fucking Switzerland alive today than combining all the population of black people on the entire planet that has ever lived since the stone age lmao

Ultimately every asian and white culture had good and bad times but the fact that black people have failed to create a single good self sustaining competitive society is all that you need to confirm their genes are pure trash

"but the fact that black people have failed to create a single good self sustaining competitive society"

I mean there is truth to both sides. Truth on the liberal side that better research could be done to investigate the real difference in intelligence and anything else and then on the conservative side that you know we've lived for hundreds and hundreds of years and they haven't done much.

Sure I can see why you would want to say that per capita swiss white people are more likely to be geniuses than all blacks combined, but also you see per capita they have more resources to do so than black people. So the disproportion doesn't just cut there

 

[copemaxxeer]

Asians(East Asian stock) for example are pretty smart. More so than other races. Doing things such as Calc 1-3, Electromagnitism, Molecular cell biology etc with relative ease, but at times I doubt that as whenever I converse with them it feels as it I'm engaging with an NPC. Now you might say "They are just socially introverted compared/high inhibition to most convos OP!".

While yoi may be right, I disagree. Simply on the basis that they are clueless in ways I can't imagine. I don't know if it's because of their study culture which limits them to a linear thinking pattern or another genetic factor. However culture and genetics tends to correlate somewhat with one another. It's not as simple as culture defining genetics or genetics defining culture. They are proportionally tied to one another(going on a tangent lol).

It's as if East asians are incapable of conceptualizing things differently to what they know. They are the perfect thinkers inside of the box but outside of it, they are clueless at best.

Large language models have pretty much confirmed that multiple intelligences is sort of real, it's totally plausible that they might have just better memory but lower analytical skills

 

[Azonin]

It is an interesting study but you have to remember that to say it fully controls for the environment is inaccurate since we are only controlling for their environmental experiences at home and only partly on the social side due to having better money.

And the fact that it doesn't even fully control for the environment may support the liberal idea that, had we also controlled for social experiences like potential discrimination, school, friends, work, the white-black iq difference may have been smaller and there would be no iq gap to poke at and make fun of.

 

[Azonin]

Large language models have pretty much confirmed that multiple intelligences is sort of real, it's totally plausible that they might have just better memory but lower analytical skills

Oh absolutely intelligence is multifaceted.

There was this one genius called John Von Neumann who was able at age 8 I think, do crazy things like divide two 8 digit numbers and give you the exact value, and was also reported to be able to take a single look at a page on a phonebook and state all of the phone numbers.

What makes him different from Einstein is that Einstein may have not been this crazy intelligent at memory recall (which is a part of the g factor) or human calculator skills, but was rather more original and in fact this is one thing that mainly separates them. They both also didn't have very good or at least excellent social skills while many chads who even arent past 115 iq possess themselves, it is a thing known to separate them:

 

[copemaxxeer]

Sure I can see why you would want to say that per capita swiss white people are more likely to be geniuses than all blacks combined, but also you see per capita they have more resources to do so than black people. So the disproportion doesn't just cut there

I am not talking per Capita, besides the combined GDP of blacks + the insane number of dollars that charity gives to them dwarfs Switzerland GDP

For example shitholes like india can actually compete because they have some castes with good genes meanwhile there's no equivalent of ashkenazi/Germanic people for them (at least not enough to make any meaningful difference)

 

[widdi]

Imo the two best pieces of evidence for group differences being genetic are:

1. Polygenic scores align with our phenotypic IQ differences. Aka East Asians have more high IQ genes than whites who have more than Hispanics who have more then Blacks. If this was just due to bias you’d see whites have the highest polygenic scores since their DNA samples are larger. They also created a dummy polygenic score that just looks at ancestry and it doesn’t predict IQ after you control for the actual IQ polygenic score.

2. Admixture studies show that marginal increases in white ancestry correspond with higher IQ even when skin color is controlled for. Aka if there’s a Mullato with 60% white ancestry and another with 80% the 80% one will have a higher IQ on average even when they both have roughly the same skin color. If the gaps were due to discrimination we wouldn’t expect there to be any difference cuz you wouldn’t be able to tell them apart.


Minnesota Transracial study is not that good or conclusive one way or the other. There are different ways to interpret it and the sample is small enough that it comes down to a disagreement on whether to add or remove this 64 IQ downie white kid from the sample. However, the author of the study (who said that it proved that the gaps were environmental) did admit to being dishonest with her interpretation and left academia to become a coffee farmer in Hawaii.

 

[copemaxxeer]

They both also didn't have very good or at least excellent social skills while many chads who even arent past 115 iq possess themselves, it is a thing known to separate them:

Social skills is all about shared reality, a normie trying to hang out in a meeting of PHDs at Google would not go well for him at all

Autistic people just don't like small talk have hypersensitivity to stimulus and are too logical to appeal to the feminized NT normie mind

 

[Azonin]

I am not talking per Capita, besides the combined GDP of blacks + the insane number of dollars that charity gives to them dwarfs Switzerland GDP

For example shitholes like india can actually compete because they have some castes with good genes meanwhile there's no equivalent of ashkenazi/Germanic people for them (at least not enough to make any meaningful difference)

I can understand wanting to combine the gdp of black people and comparing it to switzerland, but there is a difference between all of those countries combined being a country of one as compared to just adding gdps of different countries for a few reasons like...

1) Political conflict and war, simply due to maslow's hierarchy of needs, all of these black countries combined that apparently have a higher gdp may have people focusing more on survival due to lack of food/water or shelter and when people have to focus more on things like these, they will probably, all else equal, have less time to study or go university and this is especially depicted in countries like germany where the average iq of a soldier would have been low because he focuses more on survival than thriving financially or being successful.

2) Just because they may have higher gdp than switzerland doesn't mean they have higher average gdp per capita, which links back to me saying how how many resources the average person has matters for equal opportunity, which I am saying they lack while youre using gdp to argue the opposite which is not enough.


tl;dr: whichever data you want to use, you are going to have to compare black people with similar total environment in order to make meaningful findings rather than extremely broad things like comparing gdps of countries which is something no one does for the reasons I told you.

 

[Azonin]

Social skills is all about shared reality, a normie trying to hang out in a meeting of PHDs at Google would not go well for him at all

Autistic people just don't like small talk have hypersensitivity to stimulus and are too logical to appeal to the feminized NT normie mind

Some autistic people like small talk, don't make such blanket statements.

I honestly have no idea what normie even refers to anymore, like the average joe? average height average iq average money salary etc.

 

[copemaxxeer]

I can understand wanting to combine the gdp of black people and comparing it to switzerland, but there is a difference between all of those countries combined being a country of one as compared to just adding gdps of different countries for a few reasons like...

1) Political conflict and war, simply due to maslow's hierarchy of needs, all of these black countries combined that apparently have a higher gdp may have people focusing more on survival due to lack of food/water or shelter and when people have to focus more on things like these, they will probably, all else equal, have less time to study or go university and this is especially depicted in countries like germany where the average iq of a soldier would have been low because he focuses more on survival than thriving financially or being successful.

2) Just because they may have higher gdp than switzerland doesn't mean they have higher average gdp per capita, which links back to me saying how how many resources the average person has matters for equal opportunity, which I am saying they lack while youre using gdp to argue the opposite which is not enough.


tl;dr: whichever data you want to use, you are going to have to compare black people with similar total environment in order to make meaningful findings rather than extremely broad things like comparing gdps of countries which is something no one does for the reasons I told you.

You can try to make excuses for them all you want, I have yet still to met an actual intelligent black IRL (actual prodigy level, not some 130 IQ midwit engineer) and it's not just me, just going by the law of big numbers there is a reason why all over planet earth blacks are treated like spoiled kids instead of sapient adults

 

[Azonin]

You can try to make excuses for them all you want, I have yet still to met an actual intelligent black IRL (actual prodigy level, not some 130 IQ midwit engineer) and it's not just me, just going by the law of big numbers there is a reason why all over planet earth blacks are treated like spoiled kids instead of sapient adults

You're not providing arguments again by going in circles and saying what you said at the start that there are less geniuses.

Them having less resources is everything when I was poor I couldn't go to a school anymore where I had the highest grades and immediately after that people saw me as a dumb loser even though that was more to do with inequity rather than inequality. I know so much more about this than you that I could start making arguments for your side but judging from how you repeat yourself you sound pretty dumb.

 

[copemaxxeer]

Them having less resources is everything

Lol no, you don't need more than a 15 dollar used phone and a bunch of pdfs to really learn, I study at a public university and I see lots of guys who went that route but because blacks don't have genuine interest in anything but maximizing getting their dick wet or course they are not gonna use their spare time doing math demonstrations instead of doing drugs

 

[Azonin]

Lol no, you don't need more than a 15 dollar used phone and a bunch of pdfs to really learn, I study at a public university and I see lots of guys who went that route but because blacks don't have genuine interest in anything but maximizing getting their dick wet or course they are not gonna use their spare time doing math demonstrations instead of doing drugs

15 dollars used phone and a bunch of pdfs could be enough if you also afford housing, potentially taxes, some kind of internet connection, maybe warmth, gas, electricity, and a stable environment.

and im saying they dont have those things but to say they dont have them because they are stupid is where the problem lies when the complexity arises with colonialism and past history, got it?

 

[copemaxxeer]

15 dollars used phone and a bunch of pdfs could be enough if you also afford housing, potentially taxes, some kind of internet connection, maybe warmth, gas, electricity, and a stable environment

The blacks that have money still display zero interest in intellectual persuits unless they are so ugly that not even thugmaxxing can help them get laid, then they might become interested in studying (and yet they still fail at being elite at stem subjects)

Listen Buddy there are lots of blacks, there are lots of races on the planet, some of them are also poor yet they are the only race that is incapable to have one or two genius kids JFL

I mean sure you can show me some genetic freak on the internet but IRL what I said it's true, you are exactly like normies treating them as spoiled kids instead of accepting reality

 

[Azonin]

The blacks that have money still display zero interest in intellectual persuits unless they are so ugly that not even thugmaxxing can help them get laid, then they might become interested in studying (and yet they still fail at being elite at stem subjects)

Listen Buddy there are lots of blacks, there are lots of races on the planet, some of them are also poor yet they are the only race that is incapable to have one or two genius kids JFL

I mean sure you can show me some genetic freak on the internet but IRL what I said it's true, you are exactly like normies treating them as spoiled kids instead of accepting reality

Everything I've just said went over your head so I'll try explain it more concisely:

"display zero interest in intellectual persuits"

pursuits* that's one, two like I already said you can't pursue intellectualism if you lack basic things like food and water, yes? This is basic and citeable psychology that humans are hardwired to pursue those things first before moving onto love and belongingness and THEN career and success or something to do with money.

What difference do you exactly see between a smart black guy and a smart white guy, you don't have to do the "give me an example of a smart black guy and which white guy" just simply imagine in your head there is a black person that is smart and a white person, what is the difference? Black people are naturally more stupid? What about a white kid which is born with a mental disability or klinefelter? How do you compare the two and what do you control for?

 

[Azonin]

Everything I've just said went over your head so I'll try explain it more concisely:

"display zero interest in intellectual persuits"

pursuits* that's one, two like I already said you can't pursue intellectualism if you lack basic things like food and water, yes? This is basic and citeable psychology that humans are hardwired to pursue those things first before moving onto love and belongingness and THEN career and success or something to do with money.

What difference do you exactly see between a smart black guy and a smart white guy, you don't have to do the "give me an example of a smart black guy and which white guy" just simply imagine in your head there is a black person that is smart and a white person, what is the difference? Black people are naturally more stupid? What about a white kid which is born with a mental disability or klinefelter? How do you compare the two and what do you control for?

I am also speaking from experience, I had the highest grades in my college and as soon as my parents stopped funding me I couldn't go there anymore and had 0 time to focus on "intellectualism", you sound uneducated.

 

[copemaxxeer]

my parents stopped funding me

Wdym ? Can't you just learn on you own? You don't need private tutoring, In my country there's public wifi every where, just go to a library and studymaxx there like a normal nerd kid, you sound lazy, tell you something I live in a literal third world shithole and kids at the percentile 10-20 on wealth can easily study all day as much as they want in the library if they want to, food is so abundant no one dies of hunger EVER they give that shit everywhere

And guess what even on these conditions I again have yet to met an actual smart black in my entire life, despite having the same opportunities as everyone else fuck off

No excuses bro

 

[Azonin]

Wdym ? Can't you just learn on you own? You don't need private tutoring, In my country there's public wifi every where, just go to a library and studymaxx there like a normal nerd kid, you sound lazy, tell you something I live in a literal third world shithole and kids at the percentile 10-20 on wealth can easily study all day as much as they want in the library if so they want, food is so abundant no one dies of hunger EVER they give that shit everywhere

And guess what even on these conditions I again have yet to met an actual smart black in my entire life, despite having the same opportunities as everyone else fuck off

No excuses bro

It's ironic that you want to call me lazy even though you are too lazy to actually analyze what I replied to you, which was the same thing over and over because I think you have poor memory and kept forgetting what my argument was, which is that you can't say blacks are dumber if they are not competing in the same thing, and they aren't competing by choice there are systematic efforts or by-products that limit them. I am not denying the results from the studies, I am saying the studies could be much better but you want to off an even more broad scope by saying "i dont see black geniuses" which is wrong in many ways.

"No excuses bro 10-20 percentile still study"

I have an excuse actually, when my parents stopped funding me, I literally had no source of income, zero. So I was making £67.20/$84.92/€79.35 a week for a while which is well below your "10-20 percentile" and I live in London which is a top 5 most expensive city, not to mention jobs are hard to find so please don't just assume things when you don't know, I've lived through true poverty.